Can a planet have a day that's always longer than night?
On Earth, half the planet is illuminated at any time (let's ignore eclipses). Axial tilt lets day lengths vary, but over the course of a year, every location is illuminated half the time.
It's easy to make a planet where, over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time. Use a binary star.
But is there a stable solar system that satisfies the more restrictive requirement that the planet is always more than half illuminated?
If it orbits one star of a binary, there will be a point in its orbit where the other star passes behind the one the planet orbits. If it orbits both stars, there will likewise be a point where all three are in a line.
edit: To make it clear, I'm not talking about atmospheric diffraction (Venus has some weird stuff going on there). Solutions must work for a vacuum world.
edit: It must be daylight providing meaningful illumination, not just technically visible. Let's say that more than half the planet must always be illuminated to a level at least 2-3% of the brightest illumination it receives. This rules out a binary setup using L4/L5.
edit: A planet where the same >50% receives light all the time isn't acceptable. That meets the "more than 50% illuminated" part, but not the "day longer than night" part since it doesn't have a (solar) day. I also described this goal as "over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time".
science-based solar-system
add a comment |
On Earth, half the planet is illuminated at any time (let's ignore eclipses). Axial tilt lets day lengths vary, but over the course of a year, every location is illuminated half the time.
It's easy to make a planet where, over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time. Use a binary star.
But is there a stable solar system that satisfies the more restrictive requirement that the planet is always more than half illuminated?
If it orbits one star of a binary, there will be a point in its orbit where the other star passes behind the one the planet orbits. If it orbits both stars, there will likewise be a point where all three are in a line.
edit: To make it clear, I'm not talking about atmospheric diffraction (Venus has some weird stuff going on there). Solutions must work for a vacuum world.
edit: It must be daylight providing meaningful illumination, not just technically visible. Let's say that more than half the planet must always be illuminated to a level at least 2-3% of the brightest illumination it receives. This rules out a binary setup using L4/L5.
edit: A planet where the same >50% receives light all the time isn't acceptable. That meets the "more than 50% illuminated" part, but not the "day longer than night" part since it doesn't have a (solar) day. I also described this goal as "over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time".
science-based solar-system
Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
On Earth, half the planet is illuminated at any time (let's ignore eclipses). Axial tilt lets day lengths vary, but over the course of a year, every location is illuminated half the time.
It's easy to make a planet where, over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time. Use a binary star.
But is there a stable solar system that satisfies the more restrictive requirement that the planet is always more than half illuminated?
If it orbits one star of a binary, there will be a point in its orbit where the other star passes behind the one the planet orbits. If it orbits both stars, there will likewise be a point where all three are in a line.
edit: To make it clear, I'm not talking about atmospheric diffraction (Venus has some weird stuff going on there). Solutions must work for a vacuum world.
edit: It must be daylight providing meaningful illumination, not just technically visible. Let's say that more than half the planet must always be illuminated to a level at least 2-3% of the brightest illumination it receives. This rules out a binary setup using L4/L5.
edit: A planet where the same >50% receives light all the time isn't acceptable. That meets the "more than 50% illuminated" part, but not the "day longer than night" part since it doesn't have a (solar) day. I also described this goal as "over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time".
science-based solar-system
On Earth, half the planet is illuminated at any time (let's ignore eclipses). Axial tilt lets day lengths vary, but over the course of a year, every location is illuminated half the time.
It's easy to make a planet where, over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time. Use a binary star.
But is there a stable solar system that satisfies the more restrictive requirement that the planet is always more than half illuminated?
If it orbits one star of a binary, there will be a point in its orbit where the other star passes behind the one the planet orbits. If it orbits both stars, there will likewise be a point where all three are in a line.
edit: To make it clear, I'm not talking about atmospheric diffraction (Venus has some weird stuff going on there). Solutions must work for a vacuum world.
edit: It must be daylight providing meaningful illumination, not just technically visible. Let's say that more than half the planet must always be illuminated to a level at least 2-3% of the brightest illumination it receives. This rules out a binary setup using L4/L5.
edit: A planet where the same >50% receives light all the time isn't acceptable. That meets the "more than 50% illuminated" part, but not the "day longer than night" part since it doesn't have a (solar) day. I also described this goal as "over a year, everywhere is illuminated more than half the time".
science-based solar-system
science-based solar-system
edited 1 hour ago
asked 6 hours ago
Tristan Klassen
1,98531121
1,98531121
Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
You can have a binary star, and the planet in a Trojan position in the same orbit as the smaller of the two stars.
Basically, the two stars describe one side of an equilateral triangle, and the planet occupies the third vertex, in either L4 or L5 position.
One such configuration is presented here (figure 2, on the right).
Wikipedia gives stability requirements as "m1 > 100 m2 > 10,000 m3" so you'd need a large F-star as m1, and a small red-yellow dwarf as m2. This also requires a large orbital radius for habitability.
This configuration is not long lived enough for life to originate on the world, though. For that you'd need a smaller, colder, longer-lived main star (for example a Sun-type G star), and then you'd need a very small brown dwarf which, at a distance of some 8-10 light-minutes, wouldn't probably supply much of a daylight.
But if you don't require habitability, this would get you six hours of main daylight, six hours of "reinforced" daylight, six hours of "secondary" daylight and six hours of "night" every 24-hour day.
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
When you have a large geostationary moon that reflects enough sunlight to extend the day it should be possible. To increase the day time significantly.
Earth Example:
Formulas:
$alpha_z$ = $frac{v^2}{r}$ which is the same as: $alpha_z = frac{4pi^2}{T^2}$
- $F = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}$
$alpha_z$ is the centripetal acceleration it has to be the same as $F$ from the second formula which is the gravitational force.
T is the time it takes for your object to complete one orbit in the case of earth about 24 hours or 86400 seconds.
$r$ is the distance between the two objects.
$m_1$ and $m_2$ are the masses of your moon and planet.
$G$ is the gravitational constant.
$v$ is the speed of your orbiting object relative to in this case earth.
In our case we get about 0,0000000052885 for $alpha_z$
For the second formula you leave the mass of the moon out because it cancels out with the first formula where you originally also have to adjust for the mass of the moon but you use it in both formulas so you can ignore it completely.
If we plug this value for F in the second formula and switch the equation around to give us r we get $r^2 = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{F}$ and a value of 7.537137 × 10^22 we have to take the square root of it as it is $r^2$ and so we land at 2.74538468 × 10^11 meters which tells us that in our case it would not work because the moon would be to far away to reflect enough light onto your planet. So you would have to tweak your system if you want this solution to work.
The things you could tweak to make it possible are:
- You could make the moon lighter
- Let the Planet rotate much faster around it self
- decrease the mass of the planet
Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons. Hope this helps.
New contributor
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The star is usually much larger than the planet, and there is diffraction, so any planet is always more than half illuminated. ;-) Significantly more than half, no, imo.
Except ... if you put the orbit of the planet perpendicular to the plane in which the two binaries circumvent each other. It'll probably be tricky to stabilise such an orbit, which needs to be synced up to make sure the three objects really never line up.
An astrophysicist could probably tell us if there is a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there.
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Yes. Admittedly an engineered system answer:
Central object: A black hole. This must be rotating in the plane of the system so the deadly jets never get anywhere near the planet.
Around it, a ring of 6 (or more) stellar objects.
Case A: The planet orbits between the black hole and the stars. In this case if all the stars are burning you have perpetual sun, if you want night most of them must be dead (white dwarf or neutron star.)
Case B: The planet orbits outside the ring of stars. At this point you have more than half light but it's not perpetual.
So long as the black hole is sufficiently more massive than the stars (I don't know the required ratio) this is stable.
add a comment |
Imagine a planet with an advanced civilization. It has launched many mirrors into space, to illuminate (part) of the planets dark side. You can tweak the amount of mirrors and increase the average length of the day to fit your story.
add a comment |
Pyramid planet.
With one light source and a spherical planet, I could not think of a way to illuminate more than half. It's a sphere thing. But if you can use shapes other than a sphere it is easy. The (tidally locked) pyramid planet keeps its apex point at its sun, and each of the triangular faces stays in the light. You could have it rotate around the axis down through the apex. The square side stays in the dark.
Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark.
OK. Tidal locking not allowed. I will borrow my answer from
Why is my Dark World so dark?
This world is a disc, turning on its axis. It stays with its edge
facing its sun. On the ground, the sun is always moving along the
horizon, never setting, never rising, never stopping. Sunlight is
always redshifted and oblique. Shadows are long.
There is sunrise and sunset on the edges of the disc. The edge is a minuscule fraction of the disc.
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
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You can have a binary star, and the planet in a Trojan position in the same orbit as the smaller of the two stars.
Basically, the two stars describe one side of an equilateral triangle, and the planet occupies the third vertex, in either L4 or L5 position.
One such configuration is presented here (figure 2, on the right).
Wikipedia gives stability requirements as "m1 > 100 m2 > 10,000 m3" so you'd need a large F-star as m1, and a small red-yellow dwarf as m2. This also requires a large orbital radius for habitability.
This configuration is not long lived enough for life to originate on the world, though. For that you'd need a smaller, colder, longer-lived main star (for example a Sun-type G star), and then you'd need a very small brown dwarf which, at a distance of some 8-10 light-minutes, wouldn't probably supply much of a daylight.
But if you don't require habitability, this would get you six hours of main daylight, six hours of "reinforced" daylight, six hours of "secondary" daylight and six hours of "night" every 24-hour day.
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You can have a binary star, and the planet in a Trojan position in the same orbit as the smaller of the two stars.
Basically, the two stars describe one side of an equilateral triangle, and the planet occupies the third vertex, in either L4 or L5 position.
One such configuration is presented here (figure 2, on the right).
Wikipedia gives stability requirements as "m1 > 100 m2 > 10,000 m3" so you'd need a large F-star as m1, and a small red-yellow dwarf as m2. This also requires a large orbital radius for habitability.
This configuration is not long lived enough for life to originate on the world, though. For that you'd need a smaller, colder, longer-lived main star (for example a Sun-type G star), and then you'd need a very small brown dwarf which, at a distance of some 8-10 light-minutes, wouldn't probably supply much of a daylight.
But if you don't require habitability, this would get you six hours of main daylight, six hours of "reinforced" daylight, six hours of "secondary" daylight and six hours of "night" every 24-hour day.
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You can have a binary star, and the planet in a Trojan position in the same orbit as the smaller of the two stars.
Basically, the two stars describe one side of an equilateral triangle, and the planet occupies the third vertex, in either L4 or L5 position.
One such configuration is presented here (figure 2, on the right).
Wikipedia gives stability requirements as "m1 > 100 m2 > 10,000 m3" so you'd need a large F-star as m1, and a small red-yellow dwarf as m2. This also requires a large orbital radius for habitability.
This configuration is not long lived enough for life to originate on the world, though. For that you'd need a smaller, colder, longer-lived main star (for example a Sun-type G star), and then you'd need a very small brown dwarf which, at a distance of some 8-10 light-minutes, wouldn't probably supply much of a daylight.
But if you don't require habitability, this would get you six hours of main daylight, six hours of "reinforced" daylight, six hours of "secondary" daylight and six hours of "night" every 24-hour day.
You can have a binary star, and the planet in a Trojan position in the same orbit as the smaller of the two stars.
Basically, the two stars describe one side of an equilateral triangle, and the planet occupies the third vertex, in either L4 or L5 position.
One such configuration is presented here (figure 2, on the right).
Wikipedia gives stability requirements as "m1 > 100 m2 > 10,000 m3" so you'd need a large F-star as m1, and a small red-yellow dwarf as m2. This also requires a large orbital radius for habitability.
This configuration is not long lived enough for life to originate on the world, though. For that you'd need a smaller, colder, longer-lived main star (for example a Sun-type G star), and then you'd need a very small brown dwarf which, at a distance of some 8-10 light-minutes, wouldn't probably supply much of a daylight.
But if you don't require habitability, this would get you six hours of main daylight, six hours of "reinforced" daylight, six hours of "secondary" daylight and six hours of "night" every 24-hour day.
answered 4 hours ago
LSerni
25.5k24481
25.5k24481
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
I thought about a Lagrange point setup before. However, luminosity goes as mass to the 3.5 power, and the minimum mass ratio to make a stable Lagrange point is 25, meaning that the minimum luminosity ratio is 78000. That's hardly better than a full moon on Earth (1/400000 of full daylight). I want a day that would be recognized as 'daylight', which means an extended time period with at least a few % of full daylight.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
When you have a large geostationary moon that reflects enough sunlight to extend the day it should be possible. To increase the day time significantly.
Earth Example:
Formulas:
$alpha_z$ = $frac{v^2}{r}$ which is the same as: $alpha_z = frac{4pi^2}{T^2}$
- $F = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}$
$alpha_z$ is the centripetal acceleration it has to be the same as $F$ from the second formula which is the gravitational force.
T is the time it takes for your object to complete one orbit in the case of earth about 24 hours or 86400 seconds.
$r$ is the distance between the two objects.
$m_1$ and $m_2$ are the masses of your moon and planet.
$G$ is the gravitational constant.
$v$ is the speed of your orbiting object relative to in this case earth.
In our case we get about 0,0000000052885 for $alpha_z$
For the second formula you leave the mass of the moon out because it cancels out with the first formula where you originally also have to adjust for the mass of the moon but you use it in both formulas so you can ignore it completely.
If we plug this value for F in the second formula and switch the equation around to give us r we get $r^2 = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{F}$ and a value of 7.537137 × 10^22 we have to take the square root of it as it is $r^2$ and so we land at 2.74538468 × 10^11 meters which tells us that in our case it would not work because the moon would be to far away to reflect enough light onto your planet. So you would have to tweak your system if you want this solution to work.
The things you could tweak to make it possible are:
- You could make the moon lighter
- Let the Planet rotate much faster around it self
- decrease the mass of the planet
Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons. Hope this helps.
New contributor
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
add a comment |
When you have a large geostationary moon that reflects enough sunlight to extend the day it should be possible. To increase the day time significantly.
Earth Example:
Formulas:
$alpha_z$ = $frac{v^2}{r}$ which is the same as: $alpha_z = frac{4pi^2}{T^2}$
- $F = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}$
$alpha_z$ is the centripetal acceleration it has to be the same as $F$ from the second formula which is the gravitational force.
T is the time it takes for your object to complete one orbit in the case of earth about 24 hours or 86400 seconds.
$r$ is the distance between the two objects.
$m_1$ and $m_2$ are the masses of your moon and planet.
$G$ is the gravitational constant.
$v$ is the speed of your orbiting object relative to in this case earth.
In our case we get about 0,0000000052885 for $alpha_z$
For the second formula you leave the mass of the moon out because it cancels out with the first formula where you originally also have to adjust for the mass of the moon but you use it in both formulas so you can ignore it completely.
If we plug this value for F in the second formula and switch the equation around to give us r we get $r^2 = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{F}$ and a value of 7.537137 × 10^22 we have to take the square root of it as it is $r^2$ and so we land at 2.74538468 × 10^11 meters which tells us that in our case it would not work because the moon would be to far away to reflect enough light onto your planet. So you would have to tweak your system if you want this solution to work.
The things you could tweak to make it possible are:
- You could make the moon lighter
- Let the Planet rotate much faster around it self
- decrease the mass of the planet
Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons. Hope this helps.
New contributor
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
add a comment |
When you have a large geostationary moon that reflects enough sunlight to extend the day it should be possible. To increase the day time significantly.
Earth Example:
Formulas:
$alpha_z$ = $frac{v^2}{r}$ which is the same as: $alpha_z = frac{4pi^2}{T^2}$
- $F = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}$
$alpha_z$ is the centripetal acceleration it has to be the same as $F$ from the second formula which is the gravitational force.
T is the time it takes for your object to complete one orbit in the case of earth about 24 hours or 86400 seconds.
$r$ is the distance between the two objects.
$m_1$ and $m_2$ are the masses of your moon and planet.
$G$ is the gravitational constant.
$v$ is the speed of your orbiting object relative to in this case earth.
In our case we get about 0,0000000052885 for $alpha_z$
For the second formula you leave the mass of the moon out because it cancels out with the first formula where you originally also have to adjust for the mass of the moon but you use it in both formulas so you can ignore it completely.
If we plug this value for F in the second formula and switch the equation around to give us r we get $r^2 = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{F}$ and a value of 7.537137 × 10^22 we have to take the square root of it as it is $r^2$ and so we land at 2.74538468 × 10^11 meters which tells us that in our case it would not work because the moon would be to far away to reflect enough light onto your planet. So you would have to tweak your system if you want this solution to work.
The things you could tweak to make it possible are:
- You could make the moon lighter
- Let the Planet rotate much faster around it self
- decrease the mass of the planet
Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons. Hope this helps.
New contributor
When you have a large geostationary moon that reflects enough sunlight to extend the day it should be possible. To increase the day time significantly.
Earth Example:
Formulas:
$alpha_z$ = $frac{v^2}{r}$ which is the same as: $alpha_z = frac{4pi^2}{T^2}$
- $F = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}$
$alpha_z$ is the centripetal acceleration it has to be the same as $F$ from the second formula which is the gravitational force.
T is the time it takes for your object to complete one orbit in the case of earth about 24 hours or 86400 seconds.
$r$ is the distance between the two objects.
$m_1$ and $m_2$ are the masses of your moon and planet.
$G$ is the gravitational constant.
$v$ is the speed of your orbiting object relative to in this case earth.
In our case we get about 0,0000000052885 for $alpha_z$
For the second formula you leave the mass of the moon out because it cancels out with the first formula where you originally also have to adjust for the mass of the moon but you use it in both formulas so you can ignore it completely.
If we plug this value for F in the second formula and switch the equation around to give us r we get $r^2 = Gfrac{m_1 m_2}{F}$ and a value of 7.537137 × 10^22 we have to take the square root of it as it is $r^2$ and so we land at 2.74538468 × 10^11 meters which tells us that in our case it would not work because the moon would be to far away to reflect enough light onto your planet. So you would have to tweak your system if you want this solution to work.
The things you could tweak to make it possible are:
- You could make the moon lighter
- Let the Planet rotate much faster around it self
- decrease the mass of the planet
Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons. Hope this helps.
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
Οurous
1033
1033
New contributor
answered 4 hours ago
Soan
739
739
New contributor
New contributor
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
The formulas looked funny because you were using separate TeX blocks over multiple lines, I've suggested an edit to fix the issue.
– Οurous
3 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
Thanks I hope I can recreate this next time.
– Soan
2 hours ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
"Also you could place the planet between two stars in such a way that both stars pull on the planet with the same force which leads to a cancellation of gravitational forces but you would have constant day and no seasons." Isn't that unstable?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
depends on how consistent the stars orbit each other. But yeah in most cases it is. Which does not stop him from creating the planet with the perfect double star solar system where it is stable.
– Soan
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The star is usually much larger than the planet, and there is diffraction, so any planet is always more than half illuminated. ;-) Significantly more than half, no, imo.
Except ... if you put the orbit of the planet perpendicular to the plane in which the two binaries circumvent each other. It'll probably be tricky to stabilise such an orbit, which needs to be synced up to make sure the three objects really never line up.
An astrophysicist could probably tell us if there is a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there.
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The star is usually much larger than the planet, and there is diffraction, so any planet is always more than half illuminated. ;-) Significantly more than half, no, imo.
Except ... if you put the orbit of the planet perpendicular to the plane in which the two binaries circumvent each other. It'll probably be tricky to stabilise such an orbit, which needs to be synced up to make sure the three objects really never line up.
An astrophysicist could probably tell us if there is a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there.
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The star is usually much larger than the planet, and there is diffraction, so any planet is always more than half illuminated. ;-) Significantly more than half, no, imo.
Except ... if you put the orbit of the planet perpendicular to the plane in which the two binaries circumvent each other. It'll probably be tricky to stabilise such an orbit, which needs to be synced up to make sure the three objects really never line up.
An astrophysicist could probably tell us if there is a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there.
The star is usually much larger than the planet, and there is diffraction, so any planet is always more than half illuminated. ;-) Significantly more than half, no, imo.
Except ... if you put the orbit of the planet perpendicular to the plane in which the two binaries circumvent each other. It'll probably be tricky to stabilise such an orbit, which needs to be synced up to make sure the three objects really never line up.
An astrophysicist could probably tell us if there is a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
Karl
2,527816
2,527816
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
"a "natural" resonance which would drive a planet into such an orbit, and keep it there." You'll notice the same could also happen in a coplanar system! Can a resonance be set up so the three bodies never line up that way?
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Yes. Admittedly an engineered system answer:
Central object: A black hole. This must be rotating in the plane of the system so the deadly jets never get anywhere near the planet.
Around it, a ring of 6 (or more) stellar objects.
Case A: The planet orbits between the black hole and the stars. In this case if all the stars are burning you have perpetual sun, if you want night most of them must be dead (white dwarf or neutron star.)
Case B: The planet orbits outside the ring of stars. At this point you have more than half light but it's not perpetual.
So long as the black hole is sufficiently more massive than the stars (I don't know the required ratio) this is stable.
add a comment |
Yes. Admittedly an engineered system answer:
Central object: A black hole. This must be rotating in the plane of the system so the deadly jets never get anywhere near the planet.
Around it, a ring of 6 (or more) stellar objects.
Case A: The planet orbits between the black hole and the stars. In this case if all the stars are burning you have perpetual sun, if you want night most of them must be dead (white dwarf or neutron star.)
Case B: The planet orbits outside the ring of stars. At this point you have more than half light but it's not perpetual.
So long as the black hole is sufficiently more massive than the stars (I don't know the required ratio) this is stable.
add a comment |
Yes. Admittedly an engineered system answer:
Central object: A black hole. This must be rotating in the plane of the system so the deadly jets never get anywhere near the planet.
Around it, a ring of 6 (or more) stellar objects.
Case A: The planet orbits between the black hole and the stars. In this case if all the stars are burning you have perpetual sun, if you want night most of them must be dead (white dwarf or neutron star.)
Case B: The planet orbits outside the ring of stars. At this point you have more than half light but it's not perpetual.
So long as the black hole is sufficiently more massive than the stars (I don't know the required ratio) this is stable.
Yes. Admittedly an engineered system answer:
Central object: A black hole. This must be rotating in the plane of the system so the deadly jets never get anywhere near the planet.
Around it, a ring of 6 (or more) stellar objects.
Case A: The planet orbits between the black hole and the stars. In this case if all the stars are burning you have perpetual sun, if you want night most of them must be dead (white dwarf or neutron star.)
Case B: The planet orbits outside the ring of stars. At this point you have more than half light but it's not perpetual.
So long as the black hole is sufficiently more massive than the stars (I don't know the required ratio) this is stable.
answered 4 hours ago
Loren Pechtel
19k2261
19k2261
add a comment |
add a comment |
Imagine a planet with an advanced civilization. It has launched many mirrors into space, to illuminate (part) of the planets dark side. You can tweak the amount of mirrors and increase the average length of the day to fit your story.
add a comment |
Imagine a planet with an advanced civilization. It has launched many mirrors into space, to illuminate (part) of the planets dark side. You can tweak the amount of mirrors and increase the average length of the day to fit your story.
add a comment |
Imagine a planet with an advanced civilization. It has launched many mirrors into space, to illuminate (part) of the planets dark side. You can tweak the amount of mirrors and increase the average length of the day to fit your story.
Imagine a planet with an advanced civilization. It has launched many mirrors into space, to illuminate (part) of the planets dark side. You can tweak the amount of mirrors and increase the average length of the day to fit your story.
answered 55 mins ago
Abigail
1,779416
1,779416
add a comment |
add a comment |
Pyramid planet.
With one light source and a spherical planet, I could not think of a way to illuminate more than half. It's a sphere thing. But if you can use shapes other than a sphere it is easy. The (tidally locked) pyramid planet keeps its apex point at its sun, and each of the triangular faces stays in the light. You could have it rotate around the axis down through the apex. The square side stays in the dark.
Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark.
OK. Tidal locking not allowed. I will borrow my answer from
Why is my Dark World so dark?
This world is a disc, turning on its axis. It stays with its edge
facing its sun. On the ground, the sun is always moving along the
horizon, never setting, never rising, never stopping. Sunlight is
always redshifted and oblique. Shadows are long.
There is sunrise and sunset on the edges of the disc. The edge is a minuscule fraction of the disc.
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Pyramid planet.
With one light source and a spherical planet, I could not think of a way to illuminate more than half. It's a sphere thing. But if you can use shapes other than a sphere it is easy. The (tidally locked) pyramid planet keeps its apex point at its sun, and each of the triangular faces stays in the light. You could have it rotate around the axis down through the apex. The square side stays in the dark.
Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark.
OK. Tidal locking not allowed. I will borrow my answer from
Why is my Dark World so dark?
This world is a disc, turning on its axis. It stays with its edge
facing its sun. On the ground, the sun is always moving along the
horizon, never setting, never rising, never stopping. Sunlight is
always redshifted and oblique. Shadows are long.
There is sunrise and sunset on the edges of the disc. The edge is a minuscule fraction of the disc.
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Pyramid planet.
With one light source and a spherical planet, I could not think of a way to illuminate more than half. It's a sphere thing. But if you can use shapes other than a sphere it is easy. The (tidally locked) pyramid planet keeps its apex point at its sun, and each of the triangular faces stays in the light. You could have it rotate around the axis down through the apex. The square side stays in the dark.
Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark.
OK. Tidal locking not allowed. I will borrow my answer from
Why is my Dark World so dark?
This world is a disc, turning on its axis. It stays with its edge
facing its sun. On the ground, the sun is always moving along the
horizon, never setting, never rising, never stopping. Sunlight is
always redshifted and oblique. Shadows are long.
There is sunrise and sunset on the edges of the disc. The edge is a minuscule fraction of the disc.
Pyramid planet.
With one light source and a spherical planet, I could not think of a way to illuminate more than half. It's a sphere thing. But if you can use shapes other than a sphere it is easy. The (tidally locked) pyramid planet keeps its apex point at its sun, and each of the triangular faces stays in the light. You could have it rotate around the axis down through the apex. The square side stays in the dark.
Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark.
OK. Tidal locking not allowed. I will borrow my answer from
Why is my Dark World so dark?
This world is a disc, turning on its axis. It stays with its edge
facing its sun. On the ground, the sun is always moving along the
horizon, never setting, never rising, never stopping. Sunlight is
always redshifted and oblique. Shadows are long.
There is sunrise and sunset on the edges of the disc. The edge is a minuscule fraction of the disc.
edited 16 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Willk
101k25193425
101k25193425
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
"Other tidally locked elongated shapes would also keep their elongated faces in the light and the base in the dark." I guess I forgot to specify that tidal lock is ruled out, because everywhere on the planet must receive day at least some of the time.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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Wont that depend on your definition of "day"? I think Alpha Centauri has 3 stars but one is so far outwards it doesnt illuminate much anymore. A similar system with the third star closer to the center (perhaps a "small" red dwarf?) would illuminate enough to give that "day" cycle.
– Demigan
5 hours ago
Demigan: Yeah, definition is vague. But, for example, moonlight on Earth isn't bright enough to be thought of as 'day'. At what intensity does light become considered 'day' on Earth -- a few % of its full intensity? Karl: Yeah, I know those. But like eclipses, they're minor effects.
– Tristan Klassen
5 hours ago
Your title asks a different question from the text. One asks for a day that's longer than night. The other asks that the planet always be more than half illuminated. That is not the same question at all.
– chasly from UK
4 hours ago
For a planet with no axial tilt and turning on its axis at a constant rate, they are the same AFAICT.
– Tristan Klassen
1 hour ago