Unarmed Monk/Rogue Multi-Classing [on hold]
Goal: Battlefield controller able to zip around stunning casters and offering help to Assassin/fighter and Barbarian/fighter melee.
The strategy I plan on using is having my Monk run to the back and stun the biggest threat caster, so ranged can take them out easier. Next, help the Melee dps with help/proning/grappling/stunning. All the while I hope to avoid damage with superior movement and denying opportunity attacks.
I'm level 4 Genasi (earth) Monk currently and feel like I messed up by taking ACI instead of the Mobility feat.
My group plans to play to 20 and beyond, but I'm not optimizing for damage just utility and mobility.
My plan is to go either 17 Monk/ 3 Rogue or 20 Monk. My question is mostly if I do dip into rogue what would be the best archetype for an unarmed monk? The one that interested me the most is Scout as I really think the Skirmisher feature is good for what I want to do as well as the free expertise.
The only restriction on my character is an RP one: No weapons, armor, or magic, but can use enchanted items.
Group: We're all level 4 currently using DnD Beyond so all material are available, and only the gunslinger has any experience.
Healer: Cleric (Life Domain)
Ranged DPS: Ranger/Fighter/Gloom Stalker & Fighter/Gunslinger
Melee DPS: Barbarian/Fighter(Path of the Totem[Bear]) & Fighter/Rogue(Assassin)
Caster: Wizard (School of Divination)
dnd-5e monk multi-classing rogue unarmed-combat
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by MivaScott, kviiri, Ruse, Rubiksmoose, V2Blast 14 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
|
show 2 more comments
Goal: Battlefield controller able to zip around stunning casters and offering help to Assassin/fighter and Barbarian/fighter melee.
The strategy I plan on using is having my Monk run to the back and stun the biggest threat caster, so ranged can take them out easier. Next, help the Melee dps with help/proning/grappling/stunning. All the while I hope to avoid damage with superior movement and denying opportunity attacks.
I'm level 4 Genasi (earth) Monk currently and feel like I messed up by taking ACI instead of the Mobility feat.
My group plans to play to 20 and beyond, but I'm not optimizing for damage just utility and mobility.
My plan is to go either 17 Monk/ 3 Rogue or 20 Monk. My question is mostly if I do dip into rogue what would be the best archetype for an unarmed monk? The one that interested me the most is Scout as I really think the Skirmisher feature is good for what I want to do as well as the free expertise.
The only restriction on my character is an RP one: No weapons, armor, or magic, but can use enchanted items.
Group: We're all level 4 currently using DnD Beyond so all material are available, and only the gunslinger has any experience.
Healer: Cleric (Life Domain)
Ranged DPS: Ranger/Fighter/Gloom Stalker & Fighter/Gunslinger
Melee DPS: Barbarian/Fighter(Path of the Totem[Bear]) & Fighter/Rogue(Assassin)
Caster: Wizard (School of Divination)
dnd-5e monk multi-classing rogue unarmed-combat
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by MivaScott, kviiri, Ruse, Rubiksmoose, V2Blast 14 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
4
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
1
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
1
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
1
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
2
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Goal: Battlefield controller able to zip around stunning casters and offering help to Assassin/fighter and Barbarian/fighter melee.
The strategy I plan on using is having my Monk run to the back and stun the biggest threat caster, so ranged can take them out easier. Next, help the Melee dps with help/proning/grappling/stunning. All the while I hope to avoid damage with superior movement and denying opportunity attacks.
I'm level 4 Genasi (earth) Monk currently and feel like I messed up by taking ACI instead of the Mobility feat.
My group plans to play to 20 and beyond, but I'm not optimizing for damage just utility and mobility.
My plan is to go either 17 Monk/ 3 Rogue or 20 Monk. My question is mostly if I do dip into rogue what would be the best archetype for an unarmed monk? The one that interested me the most is Scout as I really think the Skirmisher feature is good for what I want to do as well as the free expertise.
The only restriction on my character is an RP one: No weapons, armor, or magic, but can use enchanted items.
Group: We're all level 4 currently using DnD Beyond so all material are available, and only the gunslinger has any experience.
Healer: Cleric (Life Domain)
Ranged DPS: Ranger/Fighter/Gloom Stalker & Fighter/Gunslinger
Melee DPS: Barbarian/Fighter(Path of the Totem[Bear]) & Fighter/Rogue(Assassin)
Caster: Wizard (School of Divination)
dnd-5e monk multi-classing rogue unarmed-combat
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Goal: Battlefield controller able to zip around stunning casters and offering help to Assassin/fighter and Barbarian/fighter melee.
The strategy I plan on using is having my Monk run to the back and stun the biggest threat caster, so ranged can take them out easier. Next, help the Melee dps with help/proning/grappling/stunning. All the while I hope to avoid damage with superior movement and denying opportunity attacks.
I'm level 4 Genasi (earth) Monk currently and feel like I messed up by taking ACI instead of the Mobility feat.
My group plans to play to 20 and beyond, but I'm not optimizing for damage just utility and mobility.
My plan is to go either 17 Monk/ 3 Rogue or 20 Monk. My question is mostly if I do dip into rogue what would be the best archetype for an unarmed monk? The one that interested me the most is Scout as I really think the Skirmisher feature is good for what I want to do as well as the free expertise.
The only restriction on my character is an RP one: No weapons, armor, or magic, but can use enchanted items.
Group: We're all level 4 currently using DnD Beyond so all material are available, and only the gunslinger has any experience.
Healer: Cleric (Life Domain)
Ranged DPS: Ranger/Fighter/Gloom Stalker & Fighter/Gunslinger
Melee DPS: Barbarian/Fighter(Path of the Totem[Bear]) & Fighter/Rogue(Assassin)
Caster: Wizard (School of Divination)
dnd-5e monk multi-classing rogue unarmed-combat
dnd-5e monk multi-classing rogue unarmed-combat
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 5 hours ago
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
asked 17 hours ago
Martez
112
112
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by MivaScott, kviiri, Ruse, Rubiksmoose, V2Blast 14 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by MivaScott, kviiri, Ruse, Rubiksmoose, V2Blast 14 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
4
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
1
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
1
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
1
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
2
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
4
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
1
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
1
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
1
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
2
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago
4
4
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
1
1
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
1
1
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
1
1
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
2
2
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack
Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.
Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.
This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.
The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.
Don't take Mobility either
You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.
The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.
If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.
Scout's Skirmisher
DnD is a team sport, if the enemy can't get to you, they will just beat up your friends instead. The net outcome for your party does not change, unless your AC is significantly lower than the other's.
That should not be the case, if you did point buy.
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
add a comment |
The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat
You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.
Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack
Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.
Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.
This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.
The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.
Don't take Mobility either
You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.
The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.
If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.
Scout's Skirmisher
DnD is a team sport, if the enemy can't get to you, they will just beat up your friends instead. The net outcome for your party does not change, unless your AC is significantly lower than the other's.
That should not be the case, if you did point buy.
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack
Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.
Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.
This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.
The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.
Don't take Mobility either
You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.
The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.
If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.
Scout's Skirmisher
DnD is a team sport, if the enemy can't get to you, they will just beat up your friends instead. The net outcome for your party does not change, unless your AC is significantly lower than the other's.
That should not be the case, if you did point buy.
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack
Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.
Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.
This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.
The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.
Don't take Mobility either
You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.
The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.
If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.
Scout's Skirmisher
DnD is a team sport, if the enemy can't get to you, they will just beat up your friends instead. The net outcome for your party does not change, unless your AC is significantly lower than the other's.
That should not be the case, if you did point buy.
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack
Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.
Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.
This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.
The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.
Don't take Mobility either
You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.
The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.
If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.
Scout's Skirmisher
DnD is a team sport, if the enemy can't get to you, they will just beat up your friends instead. The net outcome for your party does not change, unless your AC is significantly lower than the other's.
That should not be the case, if you did point buy.
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
edited 3 hours ago
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
answered 17 hours ago
András
26.2k1092185
26.2k1092185
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
– Ryan Thompson
16 hours ago
add a comment |
The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat
You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.
Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
add a comment |
The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat
You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.
Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
add a comment |
The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat
You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.
Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat
You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.
Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
answered 16 hours ago
Ryan Thompson
5,78612054
5,78612054
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
add a comment |
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
Mobile is mostly redundant on a Monk with Stunning Fist, too
– András
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
@András I agree. I tried to answer the question assuming they had already decided on the feat and were considering the rogue multiclass in addition to that, but it also makes sense to question the decision to take the feat, as your answer does.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
"your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat" - it will decrease DPR by delaying the Martial Arts damage progression
– András
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
@András DPR won't actually decrease in absolute terms, but yes, compared to either the same number of monk levels or other characters of the same level, relative DPR will fall behind. This is what I meany by saying those levels would better be spent on increasing monk level.
– Ryan Thompson
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
not taking any levels is hardly an option, so only relative DPR matters. I agree that those would be better spent on monk levels, but you make rogue sound only slightly worse.
– András
15 hours ago
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4
This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
17 hours ago
1
How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
16 hours ago
1
@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
15 hours ago
1
@András It matters considerably since the base class is Monk, and when to switch to rogue, and which one will influence how good the MC can be. For example, if you stun an opponent and have some levels in rogue, your next attack is at advantage and you can apply sneak attack damage. (You need a dagger or a short sword in your hand, which are both monk weapons). But the question still needs to clarification IMO.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
2
You may want to refer to this Q&A to see what kind of information we need to be able to answer an optimization question here. Please look it over and add all the required info into your question.
– Rubiksmoose
15 hours ago