How do we tell whether an element is licensed or not?
I read a comment on licensing in another post, which made me revisit this concept. Unfortunately I'm away over the holidays, and haven't got access to CaGELL – only to its "little brother", A Student's Introduction to English Grammar, by the same authors (henceforth referred to as H&P).
In their discussion of licensing (e.g. pp65ff), H&P repeatedly use a test where they insert an element of one structure into that of another, in order to illustrate the difference between complement and adjunct. For instance, they show on p65 that the NP the cheese in Sue used the cheese is a complement (Od) because if it is used instead with an intransitive verb, we get an ungrammatical result: * Sue disappeared the cheese. On p71 they do the same thing with the manager in Ed told the manager, showing that the manager is an object since it is inadmissible with the intransitive verb arrive – * Ed arrived the manager – and furthermore add that the object contrasts with the adjunct last week, in that "no verb requires that an adjunct like last week be present in the clause", so that it's perfectly possible to say Ed arrived last week.
To me, this MO seems odd, seeing that it suggests that a certain form always has the same function, regardless of the context in which it is used – something that obviously doesn't hold true. The unreliability of the insertion test becomes blatantly obvious if we use it on a clause such as The meeting was last week, where we want to determine whether last week is a complement or not; as has just been shown (and as is discussed on p 71 in H&P), this "test" renders last week an adjunct, whereas in this case it is, in fact a complement.
So, my question now is quite simply: if licensing is the concept we use to explain and identify the difference between complements and modifiers, how do we apply it in a reliable way?
syntax modifiers complements
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
add a comment |
I read a comment on licensing in another post, which made me revisit this concept. Unfortunately I'm away over the holidays, and haven't got access to CaGELL – only to its "little brother", A Student's Introduction to English Grammar, by the same authors (henceforth referred to as H&P).
In their discussion of licensing (e.g. pp65ff), H&P repeatedly use a test where they insert an element of one structure into that of another, in order to illustrate the difference between complement and adjunct. For instance, they show on p65 that the NP the cheese in Sue used the cheese is a complement (Od) because if it is used instead with an intransitive verb, we get an ungrammatical result: * Sue disappeared the cheese. On p71 they do the same thing with the manager in Ed told the manager, showing that the manager is an object since it is inadmissible with the intransitive verb arrive – * Ed arrived the manager – and furthermore add that the object contrasts with the adjunct last week, in that "no verb requires that an adjunct like last week be present in the clause", so that it's perfectly possible to say Ed arrived last week.
To me, this MO seems odd, seeing that it suggests that a certain form always has the same function, regardless of the context in which it is used – something that obviously doesn't hold true. The unreliability of the insertion test becomes blatantly obvious if we use it on a clause such as The meeting was last week, where we want to determine whether last week is a complement or not; as has just been shown (and as is discussed on p 71 in H&P), this "test" renders last week an adjunct, whereas in this case it is, in fact a complement.
So, my question now is quite simply: if licensing is the concept we use to explain and identify the difference between complements and modifiers, how do we apply it in a reliable way?
syntax modifiers complements
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I read a comment on licensing in another post, which made me revisit this concept. Unfortunately I'm away over the holidays, and haven't got access to CaGELL – only to its "little brother", A Student's Introduction to English Grammar, by the same authors (henceforth referred to as H&P).
In their discussion of licensing (e.g. pp65ff), H&P repeatedly use a test where they insert an element of one structure into that of another, in order to illustrate the difference between complement and adjunct. For instance, they show on p65 that the NP the cheese in Sue used the cheese is a complement (Od) because if it is used instead with an intransitive verb, we get an ungrammatical result: * Sue disappeared the cheese. On p71 they do the same thing with the manager in Ed told the manager, showing that the manager is an object since it is inadmissible with the intransitive verb arrive – * Ed arrived the manager – and furthermore add that the object contrasts with the adjunct last week, in that "no verb requires that an adjunct like last week be present in the clause", so that it's perfectly possible to say Ed arrived last week.
To me, this MO seems odd, seeing that it suggests that a certain form always has the same function, regardless of the context in which it is used – something that obviously doesn't hold true. The unreliability of the insertion test becomes blatantly obvious if we use it on a clause such as The meeting was last week, where we want to determine whether last week is a complement or not; as has just been shown (and as is discussed on p 71 in H&P), this "test" renders last week an adjunct, whereas in this case it is, in fact a complement.
So, my question now is quite simply: if licensing is the concept we use to explain and identify the difference between complements and modifiers, how do we apply it in a reliable way?
syntax modifiers complements
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
I read a comment on licensing in another post, which made me revisit this concept. Unfortunately I'm away over the holidays, and haven't got access to CaGELL – only to its "little brother", A Student's Introduction to English Grammar, by the same authors (henceforth referred to as H&P).
In their discussion of licensing (e.g. pp65ff), H&P repeatedly use a test where they insert an element of one structure into that of another, in order to illustrate the difference between complement and adjunct. For instance, they show on p65 that the NP the cheese in Sue used the cheese is a complement (Od) because if it is used instead with an intransitive verb, we get an ungrammatical result: * Sue disappeared the cheese. On p71 they do the same thing with the manager in Ed told the manager, showing that the manager is an object since it is inadmissible with the intransitive verb arrive – * Ed arrived the manager – and furthermore add that the object contrasts with the adjunct last week, in that "no verb requires that an adjunct like last week be present in the clause", so that it's perfectly possible to say Ed arrived last week.
To me, this MO seems odd, seeing that it suggests that a certain form always has the same function, regardless of the context in which it is used – something that obviously doesn't hold true. The unreliability of the insertion test becomes blatantly obvious if we use it on a clause such as The meeting was last week, where we want to determine whether last week is a complement or not; as has just been shown (and as is discussed on p 71 in H&P), this "test" renders last week an adjunct, whereas in this case it is, in fact a complement.
So, my question now is quite simply: if licensing is the concept we use to explain and identify the difference between complements and modifiers, how do we apply it in a reliable way?
syntax modifiers complements
syntax modifiers complements
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
asked 5 hours ago
Hannah
666
666
You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago
add a comment |
You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago
You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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You are wrong about "last week". It is a complement because in "The meeting was last week", it is an obligatory item since its omission renders the sentence ungrammatical. Both SIEG and CGEL make this very clear in the various discussions about complements and adjuncts.
– BillJ
3 hours ago
If the meeting was last week is part of a particular longer sentence, then last week could be dropped, keeping it grammatical. (For instance: I didn't know where the meeting was last week.) It's also conceivable that the meeting was, entirely on its own, could be considered grammatical in the same sense that the world was, is, and will be is grammatical. If was is taken to mean existed. But most people parsing just the meeting was would not consider it to be meaningful. Also, the existence of last week would change the interpretation of what was is anyway.
– Jason Bassford
3 hours ago
But it's not part of a longer sentence, so it's a pointless argument. We can't say *"the meeting was"; that's why "last week" is an obligatory item and hence a complement. Do you actually know what a complement is?
– BillJ
2 hours ago
Note that obligatory items are always complements: they are needed to complete the verb phrase; optional items may be complements or adjuncts.
– BillJ
2 hours ago