Is Earth an inertial reference frame?
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Is earth considered as inertial frame? i was confused because we learned about coriolis effect. We know that earth spins therefore coriolis effect should take place . But does it have minimal effect for motion of balls etc when they move with respect to the ground?
newtonian-mechanics reference-frames inertial-frames earth coriolis-effect
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
Is earth considered as inertial frame? i was confused because we learned about coriolis effect. We know that earth spins therefore coriolis effect should take place . But does it have minimal effect for motion of balls etc when they move with respect to the ground?
newtonian-mechanics reference-frames inertial-frames earth coriolis-effect
you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
2
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
1
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
Is earth considered as inertial frame? i was confused because we learned about coriolis effect. We know that earth spins therefore coriolis effect should take place . But does it have minimal effect for motion of balls etc when they move with respect to the ground?
newtonian-mechanics reference-frames inertial-frames earth coriolis-effect
Is earth considered as inertial frame? i was confused because we learned about coriolis effect. We know that earth spins therefore coriolis effect should take place . But does it have minimal effect for motion of balls etc when they move with respect to the ground?
newtonian-mechanics reference-frames inertial-frames earth coriolis-effect
newtonian-mechanics reference-frames inertial-frames earth coriolis-effect
edited yesterday
Qmechanic♦
100k121791127
100k121791127
asked 2 days ago
ado sar
1257
1257
you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
2
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
1
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday
add a comment |
you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
2
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
1
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday
you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
2
2
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
1
1
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
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up vote
10
down vote
The surface of the Earth is not, rigorously speaking, an inertial frame of reference. Objects at rest relative to Earth's surface are actually subject to a series of inertial effects, like the ficticious forces (Coriolis, centrifugal etc.) because of Earth's rotation, precession and other kinds of acceleration.
When solving physics problems, however, we usually take the Earth frame as being inertial. This is because the inertial effects are minuscule for most of our day-to-day experiences and experiments. For example, objects in the Equator are the ones subject to the strongest centrifugal force and it is only about $3 times10^{-3}$ or $0.3%$ of their weight.
So for the most part, if an experiment is short enough and happens in a small enough region, the surface of Earth can indeed be approximated to an inertial frame of reference since the effects on the experiment's results are very, very tiny.
This of course has exceptions, as cited in njspeer's answer.
If however by "Earth" you mean the reference frame in Earth's center, it is an inertial frame according to General Relativity (GR), since observers in free fall are inertial in GR. The Earth actually does have some proper acceleration due to external forces such as radiation pressure, but these are also minuscule effects.
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Because the earth is rotating, it is never strictly an inertial reference frame. However, because the effects are small in many situations, it can often be approximated as one. When to use Coriolis forces will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. E.g. ballistic problems that cover large distances will most certainly require Coriolis-force corrections, and pendulums that swings for a long time would also require Coriolis-force corrections. For a block sliding down an inclined plane, or a spring on a mass, or a vibrating string, you should not need to take it into consideration.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Mach would say that non-inertial effects are due to the relative motion between the earth and rest of the universe.
See:
• Assis, André K. T. Relational Mechanics and Implementation of Mach’s Principle with Weber’s Gravitational Force. Montréal: Apeiron, 2014.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I know it's being a little pedantic, but I would say "earth" is a thing, not a reference frame. You could define an inertial reference frame that contains the earth.
But suppose you mean a reference frame defined with reference to the earth: Z is perpendicular to the ground where you are standing, X and Y are parallel to the ground and perpendicular to each other.
If you stand at rest in this reference frame, you may notice you feel acceleration (gravity). It is therefore not an inertial reference frame.
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
The surface of the Earth is not, rigorously speaking, an inertial frame of reference. Objects at rest relative to Earth's surface are actually subject to a series of inertial effects, like the ficticious forces (Coriolis, centrifugal etc.) because of Earth's rotation, precession and other kinds of acceleration.
When solving physics problems, however, we usually take the Earth frame as being inertial. This is because the inertial effects are minuscule for most of our day-to-day experiences and experiments. For example, objects in the Equator are the ones subject to the strongest centrifugal force and it is only about $3 times10^{-3}$ or $0.3%$ of their weight.
So for the most part, if an experiment is short enough and happens in a small enough region, the surface of Earth can indeed be approximated to an inertial frame of reference since the effects on the experiment's results are very, very tiny.
This of course has exceptions, as cited in njspeer's answer.
If however by "Earth" you mean the reference frame in Earth's center, it is an inertial frame according to General Relativity (GR), since observers in free fall are inertial in GR. The Earth actually does have some proper acceleration due to external forces such as radiation pressure, but these are also minuscule effects.
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
The surface of the Earth is not, rigorously speaking, an inertial frame of reference. Objects at rest relative to Earth's surface are actually subject to a series of inertial effects, like the ficticious forces (Coriolis, centrifugal etc.) because of Earth's rotation, precession and other kinds of acceleration.
When solving physics problems, however, we usually take the Earth frame as being inertial. This is because the inertial effects are minuscule for most of our day-to-day experiences and experiments. For example, objects in the Equator are the ones subject to the strongest centrifugal force and it is only about $3 times10^{-3}$ or $0.3%$ of their weight.
So for the most part, if an experiment is short enough and happens in a small enough region, the surface of Earth can indeed be approximated to an inertial frame of reference since the effects on the experiment's results are very, very tiny.
This of course has exceptions, as cited in njspeer's answer.
If however by "Earth" you mean the reference frame in Earth's center, it is an inertial frame according to General Relativity (GR), since observers in free fall are inertial in GR. The Earth actually does have some proper acceleration due to external forces such as radiation pressure, but these are also minuscule effects.
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
The surface of the Earth is not, rigorously speaking, an inertial frame of reference. Objects at rest relative to Earth's surface are actually subject to a series of inertial effects, like the ficticious forces (Coriolis, centrifugal etc.) because of Earth's rotation, precession and other kinds of acceleration.
When solving physics problems, however, we usually take the Earth frame as being inertial. This is because the inertial effects are minuscule for most of our day-to-day experiences and experiments. For example, objects in the Equator are the ones subject to the strongest centrifugal force and it is only about $3 times10^{-3}$ or $0.3%$ of their weight.
So for the most part, if an experiment is short enough and happens in a small enough region, the surface of Earth can indeed be approximated to an inertial frame of reference since the effects on the experiment's results are very, very tiny.
This of course has exceptions, as cited in njspeer's answer.
If however by "Earth" you mean the reference frame in Earth's center, it is an inertial frame according to General Relativity (GR), since observers in free fall are inertial in GR. The Earth actually does have some proper acceleration due to external forces such as radiation pressure, but these are also minuscule effects.
The surface of the Earth is not, rigorously speaking, an inertial frame of reference. Objects at rest relative to Earth's surface are actually subject to a series of inertial effects, like the ficticious forces (Coriolis, centrifugal etc.) because of Earth's rotation, precession and other kinds of acceleration.
When solving physics problems, however, we usually take the Earth frame as being inertial. This is because the inertial effects are minuscule for most of our day-to-day experiences and experiments. For example, objects in the Equator are the ones subject to the strongest centrifugal force and it is only about $3 times10^{-3}$ or $0.3%$ of their weight.
So for the most part, if an experiment is short enough and happens in a small enough region, the surface of Earth can indeed be approximated to an inertial frame of reference since the effects on the experiment's results are very, very tiny.
This of course has exceptions, as cited in njspeer's answer.
If however by "Earth" you mean the reference frame in Earth's center, it is an inertial frame according to General Relativity (GR), since observers in free fall are inertial in GR. The Earth actually does have some proper acceleration due to external forces such as radiation pressure, but these are also minuscule effects.
edited yesterday
answered 2 days ago
João Vítor G. Lima
780219
780219
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
add a comment |
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
2
2
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
The earth is in free-fall, so its acceleration due to the sun's gravity (or the Milky Way's) does not cause the earth-centered frame to be non-inertial. (Except for even more miniscule effects, e.g. solar radiation pressure.)
– David
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
I wasn't really sure about this. I mean, it would be considered inertial in GR, but I was using a more classical idea. I'm editing the post to address this issue. Thank you.
– João Vítor G. Lima
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Because the earth is rotating, it is never strictly an inertial reference frame. However, because the effects are small in many situations, it can often be approximated as one. When to use Coriolis forces will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. E.g. ballistic problems that cover large distances will most certainly require Coriolis-force corrections, and pendulums that swings for a long time would also require Coriolis-force corrections. For a block sliding down an inclined plane, or a spring on a mass, or a vibrating string, you should not need to take it into consideration.
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Because the earth is rotating, it is never strictly an inertial reference frame. However, because the effects are small in many situations, it can often be approximated as one. When to use Coriolis forces will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. E.g. ballistic problems that cover large distances will most certainly require Coriolis-force corrections, and pendulums that swings for a long time would also require Coriolis-force corrections. For a block sliding down an inclined plane, or a spring on a mass, or a vibrating string, you should not need to take it into consideration.
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
Because the earth is rotating, it is never strictly an inertial reference frame. However, because the effects are small in many situations, it can often be approximated as one. When to use Coriolis forces will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. E.g. ballistic problems that cover large distances will most certainly require Coriolis-force corrections, and pendulums that swings for a long time would also require Coriolis-force corrections. For a block sliding down an inclined plane, or a spring on a mass, or a vibrating string, you should not need to take it into consideration.
Because the earth is rotating, it is never strictly an inertial reference frame. However, because the effects are small in many situations, it can often be approximated as one. When to use Coriolis forces will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. E.g. ballistic problems that cover large distances will most certainly require Coriolis-force corrections, and pendulums that swings for a long time would also require Coriolis-force corrections. For a block sliding down an inclined plane, or a spring on a mass, or a vibrating string, you should not need to take it into consideration.
edited yesterday
answered 2 days ago
njspeer
4374
4374
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Mach would say that non-inertial effects are due to the relative motion between the earth and rest of the universe.
See:
• Assis, André K. T. Relational Mechanics and Implementation of Mach’s Principle with Weber’s Gravitational Force. Montréal: Apeiron, 2014.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Mach would say that non-inertial effects are due to the relative motion between the earth and rest of the universe.
See:
• Assis, André K. T. Relational Mechanics and Implementation of Mach’s Principle with Weber’s Gravitational Force. Montréal: Apeiron, 2014.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Mach would say that non-inertial effects are due to the relative motion between the earth and rest of the universe.
See:
• Assis, André K. T. Relational Mechanics and Implementation of Mach’s Principle with Weber’s Gravitational Force. Montréal: Apeiron, 2014.
Mach would say that non-inertial effects are due to the relative motion between the earth and rest of the universe.
See:
• Assis, André K. T. Relational Mechanics and Implementation of Mach’s Principle with Weber’s Gravitational Force. Montréal: Apeiron, 2014.
edited 4 hours ago
answered yesterday
Geremia
1,1702927
1,1702927
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I know it's being a little pedantic, but I would say "earth" is a thing, not a reference frame. You could define an inertial reference frame that contains the earth.
But suppose you mean a reference frame defined with reference to the earth: Z is perpendicular to the ground where you are standing, X and Y are parallel to the ground and perpendicular to each other.
If you stand at rest in this reference frame, you may notice you feel acceleration (gravity). It is therefore not an inertial reference frame.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I know it's being a little pedantic, but I would say "earth" is a thing, not a reference frame. You could define an inertial reference frame that contains the earth.
But suppose you mean a reference frame defined with reference to the earth: Z is perpendicular to the ground where you are standing, X and Y are parallel to the ground and perpendicular to each other.
If you stand at rest in this reference frame, you may notice you feel acceleration (gravity). It is therefore not an inertial reference frame.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I know it's being a little pedantic, but I would say "earth" is a thing, not a reference frame. You could define an inertial reference frame that contains the earth.
But suppose you mean a reference frame defined with reference to the earth: Z is perpendicular to the ground where you are standing, X and Y are parallel to the ground and perpendicular to each other.
If you stand at rest in this reference frame, you may notice you feel acceleration (gravity). It is therefore not an inertial reference frame.
I know it's being a little pedantic, but I would say "earth" is a thing, not a reference frame. You could define an inertial reference frame that contains the earth.
But suppose you mean a reference frame defined with reference to the earth: Z is perpendicular to the ground where you are standing, X and Y are parallel to the ground and perpendicular to each other.
If you stand at rest in this reference frame, you may notice you feel acceleration (gravity). It is therefore not an inertial reference frame.
answered yesterday
Owen
27729
27729
add a comment |
add a comment |
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you can calculate it's size, e.g, for a BMG 50 cal (853 m/s muzzle velocity) shot at its max effective range (1,800m) and tell us.
– JEB
2 days ago
This question seems synonymous with "Does the earth rotate (with respect to the rest of the universe)?"
– Geremia
yesterday
2
That the Earth's surface is not an inertial frame is nicely demonstrated by the Foucault pendulum.
– Ruslan
yesterday
1
It depends on the physics problem you look at whether the Earth can be considered an inertial frame of reference or not.
– jjack
yesterday
To emphasize @jjack's point, it's notoriously hard work to get a Foucault pendulum to work properly because the non-inertial effects, while present, are very small.
– dmckee♦
yesterday