Is there something wrong with using “said (that)” in this sentence?
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Quick context, work as a translator.
I had a short blurb I had to translate where I basically rendered it as:
"Bob spoke about how Countryland was one of the countries that
suffered greatly from the Big Bad Thing, and that he wanted to hold a
photograph exhibition in Hereland."
(Names and places changed for privacy/company policy reasons)
Is there anything wrong with making it "said that Countryland..." Is it ungrammatical? If so, what would be the correct word(s) to use?
My proof reader initially changed "spoke about how" to "told that" which was ungrammatical, so I told her that, to which she responded "change it to 'said or said that' then," which I felt was wrong but could not explain why.
All the stuff I came across online explained that:
-Say is when you pronounce words, express a thought/opinion, for stating a fact, affirming something, declaring something, etc. and is also a one-way sort of action, i.e. doesn't necessarily imply there's more than one person in the situation at hand. It is also doesn't take a person as its object, not without some modifying/adding extra words.
-Tell is for giving information to somebody through speaking or writing and needs a person after it as the object. Unlike Say, it is a "two-way" sort of action, where it implies the existence of two parties conversing with each other.
-Speak is for languages and for general conversation, no specific details usually expressed.
-Talk is more or less the same as speak, but more informal.
grammar word-choice word-usage tenses
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Quick context, work as a translator.
I had a short blurb I had to translate where I basically rendered it as:
"Bob spoke about how Countryland was one of the countries that
suffered greatly from the Big Bad Thing, and that he wanted to hold a
photograph exhibition in Hereland."
(Names and places changed for privacy/company policy reasons)
Is there anything wrong with making it "said that Countryland..." Is it ungrammatical? If so, what would be the correct word(s) to use?
My proof reader initially changed "spoke about how" to "told that" which was ungrammatical, so I told her that, to which she responded "change it to 'said or said that' then," which I felt was wrong but could not explain why.
All the stuff I came across online explained that:
-Say is when you pronounce words, express a thought/opinion, for stating a fact, affirming something, declaring something, etc. and is also a one-way sort of action, i.e. doesn't necessarily imply there's more than one person in the situation at hand. It is also doesn't take a person as its object, not without some modifying/adding extra words.
-Tell is for giving information to somebody through speaking or writing and needs a person after it as the object. Unlike Say, it is a "two-way" sort of action, where it implies the existence of two parties conversing with each other.
-Speak is for languages and for general conversation, no specific details usually expressed.
-Talk is more or less the same as speak, but more informal.
grammar word-choice word-usage tenses
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
1
Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
1
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Quick context, work as a translator.
I had a short blurb I had to translate where I basically rendered it as:
"Bob spoke about how Countryland was one of the countries that
suffered greatly from the Big Bad Thing, and that he wanted to hold a
photograph exhibition in Hereland."
(Names and places changed for privacy/company policy reasons)
Is there anything wrong with making it "said that Countryland..." Is it ungrammatical? If so, what would be the correct word(s) to use?
My proof reader initially changed "spoke about how" to "told that" which was ungrammatical, so I told her that, to which she responded "change it to 'said or said that' then," which I felt was wrong but could not explain why.
All the stuff I came across online explained that:
-Say is when you pronounce words, express a thought/opinion, for stating a fact, affirming something, declaring something, etc. and is also a one-way sort of action, i.e. doesn't necessarily imply there's more than one person in the situation at hand. It is also doesn't take a person as its object, not without some modifying/adding extra words.
-Tell is for giving information to somebody through speaking or writing and needs a person after it as the object. Unlike Say, it is a "two-way" sort of action, where it implies the existence of two parties conversing with each other.
-Speak is for languages and for general conversation, no specific details usually expressed.
-Talk is more or less the same as speak, but more informal.
grammar word-choice word-usage tenses
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
Quick context, work as a translator.
I had a short blurb I had to translate where I basically rendered it as:
"Bob spoke about how Countryland was one of the countries that
suffered greatly from the Big Bad Thing, and that he wanted to hold a
photograph exhibition in Hereland."
(Names and places changed for privacy/company policy reasons)
Is there anything wrong with making it "said that Countryland..." Is it ungrammatical? If so, what would be the correct word(s) to use?
My proof reader initially changed "spoke about how" to "told that" which was ungrammatical, so I told her that, to which she responded "change it to 'said or said that' then," which I felt was wrong but could not explain why.
All the stuff I came across online explained that:
-Say is when you pronounce words, express a thought/opinion, for stating a fact, affirming something, declaring something, etc. and is also a one-way sort of action, i.e. doesn't necessarily imply there's more than one person in the situation at hand. It is also doesn't take a person as its object, not without some modifying/adding extra words.
-Tell is for giving information to somebody through speaking or writing and needs a person after it as the object. Unlike Say, it is a "two-way" sort of action, where it implies the existence of two parties conversing with each other.
-Speak is for languages and for general conversation, no specific details usually expressed.
-Talk is more or less the same as speak, but more informal.
grammar word-choice word-usage tenses
grammar word-choice word-usage tenses
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
edited Sep 20 at 13:02
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
asked Sep 20 at 12:11
Reveiller
1113
1113
1
Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
1
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17
|
show 6 more comments
1
Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
1
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17
1
1
Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
1
1
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17
|
show 6 more comments
1 Answer
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"He said [that]" followed by a clause is fine, although 'that' might also be the first word of the following clause.
"He told that" followed by a clause is bad (although grammatical), because it is likely to create a 'garden path' where the reader expects an indirect object before the object clause.
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
"He said [that]" followed by a clause is fine, although 'that' might also be the first word of the following clause.
"He told that" followed by a clause is bad (although grammatical), because it is likely to create a 'garden path' where the reader expects an indirect object before the object clause.
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
"He said [that]" followed by a clause is fine, although 'that' might also be the first word of the following clause.
"He told that" followed by a clause is bad (although grammatical), because it is likely to create a 'garden path' where the reader expects an indirect object before the object clause.
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
"He said [that]" followed by a clause is fine, although 'that' might also be the first word of the following clause.
"He told that" followed by a clause is bad (although grammatical), because it is likely to create a 'garden path' where the reader expects an indirect object before the object clause.
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
"He said [that]" followed by a clause is fine, although 'that' might also be the first word of the following clause.
"He told that" followed by a clause is bad (although grammatical), because it is likely to create a 'garden path' where the reader expects an indirect object before the object clause.
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
answered Sep 20 at 18:09
AmI
3,2061517
3,2061517
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Welcome to the site! As written, it's a bit unclear what you're actually trying to ask us here. Could you possibly edit the question to make it more obvious? Maybe a structure like "My proofreeder told me to change X to Y, but Y seems ungrammatical to me. Is Y grammatical? What is the correct form for me to use in this context?"
– ymbirtt
Sep 20 at 12:35
There is nothing wrong with spoke about how Countryland was, although you could change it to spoke about Countryland being if you don't like the presence of how. Personally, the only thing I noticed is that I'd tend to say photography exhibit rather than photograph exhibition. But that's just personal preference.
– Jason Bassford
Sep 20 at 12:35
@ymbirtt Sorry for the lack of clarity, I edited my question, is it okay like this?
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:39
@JasonBassford I figured it wasn't wrong, but I need to be able to explain why that's the case otherwise it won't fly with my co-worker.
– Reveiller
Sep 20 at 12:42
1
The text as given isn't syntactically valid, because there's no "main verb" (speak about, say, tell, etc.) in the second clause (after the comma). This can be fixed by changing the first verb to Bob said [that] Countryland was..., in which case we can reasonably delete some or all of the implied highlighted repetitions in ...and [he said that] he wanted... This problem arises because the syntax of initial spoke about doesn't match the "repeating" context of the second clause, so it can't be "deleted" as per my "to say [that]" alternative.
– FumbleFingers
Sep 20 at 13:17