Using ellipsis to indicate a pause in conversation





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Wikipedia has a sentence in its article on ellipsis:




In reported speech, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence, perhaps indicating irritation, dismay, shock or disgust. This usage is more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations.[citation needed]




I can find plenty of random internet articles making a similar statement, but is there an actual authoritative grammar source that says this is grammatically correct? Is it just something the "Internet-savvy generations" have invented?



Here is an example from a story:




She swallowed hard. "I'm afraid, Mark. Maybe if you might... talk to him?"




Here the ellipsis is indicating a verbal hesitation in the quote rather than the typical use of indicating an omission.










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    up vote
    9
    down vote

    favorite
    2












    Wikipedia has a sentence in its article on ellipsis:




    In reported speech, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence, perhaps indicating irritation, dismay, shock or disgust. This usage is more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations.[citation needed]




    I can find plenty of random internet articles making a similar statement, but is there an actual authoritative grammar source that says this is grammatically correct? Is it just something the "Internet-savvy generations" have invented?



    Here is an example from a story:




    She swallowed hard. "I'm afraid, Mark. Maybe if you might... talk to him?"




    Here the ellipsis is indicating a verbal hesitation in the quote rather than the typical use of indicating an omission.










    share|improve this question


























      up vote
      9
      down vote

      favorite
      2









      up vote
      9
      down vote

      favorite
      2






      2





      Wikipedia has a sentence in its article on ellipsis:




      In reported speech, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence, perhaps indicating irritation, dismay, shock or disgust. This usage is more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations.[citation needed]




      I can find plenty of random internet articles making a similar statement, but is there an actual authoritative grammar source that says this is grammatically correct? Is it just something the "Internet-savvy generations" have invented?



      Here is an example from a story:




      She swallowed hard. "I'm afraid, Mark. Maybe if you might... talk to him?"




      Here the ellipsis is indicating a verbal hesitation in the quote rather than the typical use of indicating an omission.










      share|improve this question















      Wikipedia has a sentence in its article on ellipsis:




      In reported speech, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence, perhaps indicating irritation, dismay, shock or disgust. This usage is more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations.[citation needed]




      I can find plenty of random internet articles making a similar statement, but is there an actual authoritative grammar source that says this is grammatically correct? Is it just something the "Internet-savvy generations" have invented?



      Here is an example from a story:




      She swallowed hard. "I'm afraid, Mark. Maybe if you might... talk to him?"




      Here the ellipsis is indicating a verbal hesitation in the quote rather than the typical use of indicating an omission.







      punctuation writing-style ellipsis






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      edited Apr 29 '16 at 7:42









      Mari-Lou A

      61k54213445




      61k54213445










      asked Dec 4 '11 at 17:54









      Lynn

      16k54382




      16k54382






















          6 Answers
          6






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          11
          down vote



          accepted










          According to Grammar Girl, several style guides support the use of ellipses to indicate a pause (the relevant paragraph can be found under the header The E-mail Ellipsis).



          She quotes from the Chicago Manual of Style that "Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty."



          I would consider such style guides to be the kind of authoritative source you were looking for.






          share|improve this answer




























            up vote
            7
            down vote













            I'm far from convinced there's any justification for that Wikipedia claim about this usage being more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations, except in the sense that many young people today probably actually write more often than earlier generations anyway, because they "chat" using text on social network sites, and post on forums. So you could say every aspect of writing is more common among the younger generation. But so far as I know, it's always been a common device, so the supposed "Internet" connection is spurious.



            As I write, I see Bjorn has just posted this same link to Grammar Girl, which cites CMOS if GG isn't authoritative enough for OP (I think she's fine in her own right, though I don't always endorse CMOS "recommendations").



            It's worth noting that in general, CMOS is "prescriptive" - it's a style guide, which specifies a particular (hopefully consistent) set of guidelines. Grammar Girl is primarily "descriptive" of all different usages which do in fact occur, without necessarily promoting one over another.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 2




              CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
              – Matt Ball
              Dec 4 '11 at 22:28










            • If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
              – FumbleFingers
              Dec 4 '11 at 22:35










            • Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
              – Matt Ball
              Dec 4 '11 at 22:38








            • 2




              I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
              – FumbleFingers
              Dec 4 '11 at 22:42


















            up vote
            4
            down vote













            The question asks whether this use of punctuational ellipsis is "grammatically correct".



            However, this is not a question of grammar at all. It is rather an issue dealing with English writing, not with the English language per se. Writing is just technology; it's (real, spoken) language that has grammar. English punctuation, in particular, is not fixed by any agreed-upon rules, but rather is employed quite variously, as it always has been.



            The fact that (real, actual spoken) English grammar is not taught in Anglophone schools has resulted in people using the word grammar to refer to just about anything they were supposed to learn at school about writing that they're unsure on -- including punctuation -- and also to use the term "grammatically correct" to refer to the imagined solution to their puzzlement about it.



            I would suggest that, if a writer believes their reader(s) will understand their phonotactic intention in using an ellipsis, then the writer should go ahead and use it. "Correctness" is of no consequence here; effectiveness is.



            For instance, I was puzzling the other day how to represent the intonation I wanted in the mind's ear of a reader, with a post that started out: Well ... I guess you could say that. I fussed with commas and other things and finally wound up using the ellipsis to indicate that the intonation slopes down for a while till the I is pronounced.



            Note, this wasn't a pause; it was a longer-than-average well, with the final lateral resonant stretched out on a downward intonation contour. Any English speaker knows what that sounds like and what it means; the problem is representing it effectively in writing, which is preferable to smoke signals for representing English intonation and rhythm, but only just.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1




              Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
              – Lynn
              Dec 5 '11 at 1:16










            • You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
              – John Lawler
              Dec 5 '11 at 1:33












            • While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
              – Lynn
              Dec 5 '11 at 1:44










            • There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
              – John Lawler
              Dec 5 '11 at 1:54


















            up vote
            3
            down vote













            Larry Trask limits the use of ellipsis to showing 'that some material has been omitted from the middle of a direct quotation' and to showing 'that a sentence has been left unfinished'. There is thus the possibility that the ellipsis will be ambiguous if it is also used to indicate a pause, but I can see no other way of doing so.






            share|improve this answer





















            • Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
              – Stephen
              Dec 4 '11 at 19:13










            • @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
              – Barrie England
              Dec 4 '11 at 19:34


















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            What I see in style guides regarding the usage of the ellipsis for an omission is presented as three periods separated by spaces (. . .) for the ommission. The ellipsis without the spaces (...) for the pause.






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            • 3




              Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
              – ab2
              Jan 13 '16 at 20:12


















            up vote
            0
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            Any author is perfectly within her rights to tell the punctuation police to **** off.



            These are matters of convention, not grammar, especially in fiction, and authors of fiction have license to approach conventions as they see fit.






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              6 Answers
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              up vote
              11
              down vote



              accepted










              According to Grammar Girl, several style guides support the use of ellipses to indicate a pause (the relevant paragraph can be found under the header The E-mail Ellipsis).



              She quotes from the Chicago Manual of Style that "Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty."



              I would consider such style guides to be the kind of authoritative source you were looking for.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                11
                down vote



                accepted










                According to Grammar Girl, several style guides support the use of ellipses to indicate a pause (the relevant paragraph can be found under the header The E-mail Ellipsis).



                She quotes from the Chicago Manual of Style that "Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty."



                I would consider such style guides to be the kind of authoritative source you were looking for.






                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  11
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  11
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  According to Grammar Girl, several style guides support the use of ellipses to indicate a pause (the relevant paragraph can be found under the header The E-mail Ellipsis).



                  She quotes from the Chicago Manual of Style that "Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty."



                  I would consider such style guides to be the kind of authoritative source you were looking for.






                  share|improve this answer












                  According to Grammar Girl, several style guides support the use of ellipses to indicate a pause (the relevant paragraph can be found under the header The E-mail Ellipsis).



                  She quotes from the Chicago Manual of Style that "Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty."



                  I would consider such style guides to be the kind of authoritative source you were looking for.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 4 '11 at 18:25









                  Bjorn

                  2,5371318




                  2,5371318
























                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote













                      I'm far from convinced there's any justification for that Wikipedia claim about this usage being more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations, except in the sense that many young people today probably actually write more often than earlier generations anyway, because they "chat" using text on social network sites, and post on forums. So you could say every aspect of writing is more common among the younger generation. But so far as I know, it's always been a common device, so the supposed "Internet" connection is spurious.



                      As I write, I see Bjorn has just posted this same link to Grammar Girl, which cites CMOS if GG isn't authoritative enough for OP (I think she's fine in her own right, though I don't always endorse CMOS "recommendations").



                      It's worth noting that in general, CMOS is "prescriptive" - it's a style guide, which specifies a particular (hopefully consistent) set of guidelines. Grammar Girl is primarily "descriptive" of all different usages which do in fact occur, without necessarily promoting one over another.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 2




                        CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:28










                      • If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:35










                      • Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:38








                      • 2




                        I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:42















                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote













                      I'm far from convinced there's any justification for that Wikipedia claim about this usage being more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations, except in the sense that many young people today probably actually write more often than earlier generations anyway, because they "chat" using text on social network sites, and post on forums. So you could say every aspect of writing is more common among the younger generation. But so far as I know, it's always been a common device, so the supposed "Internet" connection is spurious.



                      As I write, I see Bjorn has just posted this same link to Grammar Girl, which cites CMOS if GG isn't authoritative enough for OP (I think she's fine in her own right, though I don't always endorse CMOS "recommendations").



                      It's worth noting that in general, CMOS is "prescriptive" - it's a style guide, which specifies a particular (hopefully consistent) set of guidelines. Grammar Girl is primarily "descriptive" of all different usages which do in fact occur, without necessarily promoting one over another.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 2




                        CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:28










                      • If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:35










                      • Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:38








                      • 2




                        I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:42













                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote









                      I'm far from convinced there's any justification for that Wikipedia claim about this usage being more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations, except in the sense that many young people today probably actually write more often than earlier generations anyway, because they "chat" using text on social network sites, and post on forums. So you could say every aspect of writing is more common among the younger generation. But so far as I know, it's always been a common device, so the supposed "Internet" connection is spurious.



                      As I write, I see Bjorn has just posted this same link to Grammar Girl, which cites CMOS if GG isn't authoritative enough for OP (I think she's fine in her own right, though I don't always endorse CMOS "recommendations").



                      It's worth noting that in general, CMOS is "prescriptive" - it's a style guide, which specifies a particular (hopefully consistent) set of guidelines. Grammar Girl is primarily "descriptive" of all different usages which do in fact occur, without necessarily promoting one over another.






                      share|improve this answer












                      I'm far from convinced there's any justification for that Wikipedia claim about this usage being more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations, except in the sense that many young people today probably actually write more often than earlier generations anyway, because they "chat" using text on social network sites, and post on forums. So you could say every aspect of writing is more common among the younger generation. But so far as I know, it's always been a common device, so the supposed "Internet" connection is spurious.



                      As I write, I see Bjorn has just posted this same link to Grammar Girl, which cites CMOS if GG isn't authoritative enough for OP (I think she's fine in her own right, though I don't always endorse CMOS "recommendations").



                      It's worth noting that in general, CMOS is "prescriptive" - it's a style guide, which specifies a particular (hopefully consistent) set of guidelines. Grammar Girl is primarily "descriptive" of all different usages which do in fact occur, without necessarily promoting one over another.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 4 '11 at 18:35









                      FumbleFingers

                      118k32239419




                      118k32239419








                      • 2




                        CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:28










                      • If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:35










                      • Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:38








                      • 2




                        I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:42














                      • 2




                        CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:28










                      • If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:35










                      • Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                        – Matt Ball
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:38








                      • 2




                        I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                        – FumbleFingers
                        Dec 4 '11 at 22:42








                      2




                      2




                      CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                      – Matt Ball
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:28




                      CNMA (Clearly, Needs More Acronyms) :P
                      – Matt Ball
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:28












                      If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                      – FumbleFingers
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:35




                      If I hadn't seen Bjorn's answer pop up before I finished writing, I would have spelt out CMOS at least once. Anyway, I did at least write Grammar Girl in full for the last para, in case any readers might have forgotten the original reference by then. Sometimes it's a job to know whether you're helping or hindering clarity by using an acronym, but I used to do it a lot in technical writing just to keep the word count down.
                      – FumbleFingers
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:35












                      Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                      – Matt Ball
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:38






                      Your answer was easy enough to read, and I appreciate brevity. It's just that, with my background, CMOS means something a bit different.
                      – Matt Ball
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:38






                      2




                      2




                      I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                      – FumbleFingers
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:42




                      I cannot tell a lie. I'd never heard of that American style guide before I came to ELU, and for weeks I always thought of the Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor meaning whenever I saw CMOS written here.
                      – FumbleFingers
                      Dec 4 '11 at 22:42










                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote













                      The question asks whether this use of punctuational ellipsis is "grammatically correct".



                      However, this is not a question of grammar at all. It is rather an issue dealing with English writing, not with the English language per se. Writing is just technology; it's (real, spoken) language that has grammar. English punctuation, in particular, is not fixed by any agreed-upon rules, but rather is employed quite variously, as it always has been.



                      The fact that (real, actual spoken) English grammar is not taught in Anglophone schools has resulted in people using the word grammar to refer to just about anything they were supposed to learn at school about writing that they're unsure on -- including punctuation -- and also to use the term "grammatically correct" to refer to the imagined solution to their puzzlement about it.



                      I would suggest that, if a writer believes their reader(s) will understand their phonotactic intention in using an ellipsis, then the writer should go ahead and use it. "Correctness" is of no consequence here; effectiveness is.



                      For instance, I was puzzling the other day how to represent the intonation I wanted in the mind's ear of a reader, with a post that started out: Well ... I guess you could say that. I fussed with commas and other things and finally wound up using the ellipsis to indicate that the intonation slopes down for a while till the I is pronounced.



                      Note, this wasn't a pause; it was a longer-than-average well, with the final lateral resonant stretched out on a downward intonation contour. Any English speaker knows what that sounds like and what it means; the problem is representing it effectively in writing, which is preferable to smoke signals for representing English intonation and rhythm, but only just.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 1




                        Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:16










                      • You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:33












                      • While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:44










                      • There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:54















                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote













                      The question asks whether this use of punctuational ellipsis is "grammatically correct".



                      However, this is not a question of grammar at all. It is rather an issue dealing with English writing, not with the English language per se. Writing is just technology; it's (real, spoken) language that has grammar. English punctuation, in particular, is not fixed by any agreed-upon rules, but rather is employed quite variously, as it always has been.



                      The fact that (real, actual spoken) English grammar is not taught in Anglophone schools has resulted in people using the word grammar to refer to just about anything they were supposed to learn at school about writing that they're unsure on -- including punctuation -- and also to use the term "grammatically correct" to refer to the imagined solution to their puzzlement about it.



                      I would suggest that, if a writer believes their reader(s) will understand their phonotactic intention in using an ellipsis, then the writer should go ahead and use it. "Correctness" is of no consequence here; effectiveness is.



                      For instance, I was puzzling the other day how to represent the intonation I wanted in the mind's ear of a reader, with a post that started out: Well ... I guess you could say that. I fussed with commas and other things and finally wound up using the ellipsis to indicate that the intonation slopes down for a while till the I is pronounced.



                      Note, this wasn't a pause; it was a longer-than-average well, with the final lateral resonant stretched out on a downward intonation contour. Any English speaker knows what that sounds like and what it means; the problem is representing it effectively in writing, which is preferable to smoke signals for representing English intonation and rhythm, but only just.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 1




                        Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:16










                      • You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:33












                      • While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:44










                      • There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:54













                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote









                      The question asks whether this use of punctuational ellipsis is "grammatically correct".



                      However, this is not a question of grammar at all. It is rather an issue dealing with English writing, not with the English language per se. Writing is just technology; it's (real, spoken) language that has grammar. English punctuation, in particular, is not fixed by any agreed-upon rules, but rather is employed quite variously, as it always has been.



                      The fact that (real, actual spoken) English grammar is not taught in Anglophone schools has resulted in people using the word grammar to refer to just about anything they were supposed to learn at school about writing that they're unsure on -- including punctuation -- and also to use the term "grammatically correct" to refer to the imagined solution to their puzzlement about it.



                      I would suggest that, if a writer believes their reader(s) will understand their phonotactic intention in using an ellipsis, then the writer should go ahead and use it. "Correctness" is of no consequence here; effectiveness is.



                      For instance, I was puzzling the other day how to represent the intonation I wanted in the mind's ear of a reader, with a post that started out: Well ... I guess you could say that. I fussed with commas and other things and finally wound up using the ellipsis to indicate that the intonation slopes down for a while till the I is pronounced.



                      Note, this wasn't a pause; it was a longer-than-average well, with the final lateral resonant stretched out on a downward intonation contour. Any English speaker knows what that sounds like and what it means; the problem is representing it effectively in writing, which is preferable to smoke signals for representing English intonation and rhythm, but only just.






                      share|improve this answer














                      The question asks whether this use of punctuational ellipsis is "grammatically correct".



                      However, this is not a question of grammar at all. It is rather an issue dealing with English writing, not with the English language per se. Writing is just technology; it's (real, spoken) language that has grammar. English punctuation, in particular, is not fixed by any agreed-upon rules, but rather is employed quite variously, as it always has been.



                      The fact that (real, actual spoken) English grammar is not taught in Anglophone schools has resulted in people using the word grammar to refer to just about anything they were supposed to learn at school about writing that they're unsure on -- including punctuation -- and also to use the term "grammatically correct" to refer to the imagined solution to their puzzlement about it.



                      I would suggest that, if a writer believes their reader(s) will understand their phonotactic intention in using an ellipsis, then the writer should go ahead and use it. "Correctness" is of no consequence here; effectiveness is.



                      For instance, I was puzzling the other day how to represent the intonation I wanted in the mind's ear of a reader, with a post that started out: Well ... I guess you could say that. I fussed with commas and other things and finally wound up using the ellipsis to indicate that the intonation slopes down for a while till the I is pronounced.



                      Note, this wasn't a pause; it was a longer-than-average well, with the final lateral resonant stretched out on a downward intonation contour. Any English speaker knows what that sounds like and what it means; the problem is representing it effectively in writing, which is preferable to smoke signals for representing English intonation and rhythm, but only just.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Dec 15 '17 at 17:17

























                      answered Dec 4 '11 at 19:20









                      John Lawler

                      83.1k6112325




                      83.1k6112325








                      • 1




                        Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:16










                      • You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:33












                      • While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:44










                      • There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:54














                      • 1




                        Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:16










                      • You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:33












                      • While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                        – Lynn
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:44










                      • There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                        – John Lawler
                        Dec 5 '11 at 1:54








                      1




                      1




                      Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                      – Lynn
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:16




                      Regardless of whether you consider the rules of punctuation to be part of "grammar", I think that there are rules of punctuation and that is what I was asking about. Perhaps the rules don't cover this particular situation, because it is - as you said - an artifact of speech, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                      – Lynn
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:16












                      You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                      – John Lawler
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:33






                      You may indeed think there are such rules, but there really aren't any. Not that there aren't rules -- boy, are there ever rules! But they're largely incomplete and inconsistent, especially in English, so people make up their own rules and believe they are the rules, too. Check the link on punctuation above, repeated here.
                      – John Lawler
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:33














                      While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                      – Lynn
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:44




                      While I'll be the first to agree that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the "rules", I believe that to say there are no standard rules is a stretch. Perhaps in an academic sense that's true, but in a practical sense you can't just make up your own punctuation and expect to be taken seriously by, for instance, a book editor or an English professor. There are standards.
                      – Lynn
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:44












                      There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                      – John Lawler
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:54




                      There are indeed standards -- so many that one finds it hard to choose which to follow. But they're arbitrary and they're imposed by publishers, who have neither interest in, nor knowledge of, the language. As I tell my students in writing classes, if somebody is paying you to write or punctuate in a certain way, that's the job. If not, write the way you talk, and punctuate to try to represent the intonations you want.
                      – John Lawler
                      Dec 5 '11 at 1:54










                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote













                      Larry Trask limits the use of ellipsis to showing 'that some material has been omitted from the middle of a direct quotation' and to showing 'that a sentence has been left unfinished'. There is thus the possibility that the ellipsis will be ambiguous if it is also used to indicate a pause, but I can see no other way of doing so.






                      share|improve this answer





















                      • Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                        – Stephen
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:13










                      • @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                        – Barrie England
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:34















                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote













                      Larry Trask limits the use of ellipsis to showing 'that some material has been omitted from the middle of a direct quotation' and to showing 'that a sentence has been left unfinished'. There is thus the possibility that the ellipsis will be ambiguous if it is also used to indicate a pause, but I can see no other way of doing so.






                      share|improve this answer





















                      • Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                        – Stephen
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:13










                      • @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                        – Barrie England
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:34













                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote









                      Larry Trask limits the use of ellipsis to showing 'that some material has been omitted from the middle of a direct quotation' and to showing 'that a sentence has been left unfinished'. There is thus the possibility that the ellipsis will be ambiguous if it is also used to indicate a pause, but I can see no other way of doing so.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Larry Trask limits the use of ellipsis to showing 'that some material has been omitted from the middle of a direct quotation' and to showing 'that a sentence has been left unfinished'. There is thus the possibility that the ellipsis will be ambiguous if it is also used to indicate a pause, but I can see no other way of doing so.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 4 '11 at 19:06









                      Barrie England

                      128k10201346




                      128k10201346












                      • Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                        – Stephen
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:13










                      • @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                        – Barrie England
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:34


















                      • Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                        – Stephen
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:13










                      • @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                        – Barrie England
                        Dec 4 '11 at 19:34
















                      Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                      – Stephen
                      Dec 4 '11 at 19:13




                      Instead of the ellipsis a dash could be used, but (being a member of the "Internet-savvy generation" myself) I would use an ellipsis. Well, maybe with the exception of very formal texts (if the need to show a pause in a speech would even arise there).
                      – Stephen
                      Dec 4 '11 at 19:13












                      @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                      – Barrie England
                      Dec 4 '11 at 19:34




                      @Stephen: Trask limits the use of the dash to separating 'a strong interruption from the rest of the sentence'. I suppose a pause could be interpreted as a strong interruption, but I don't think that's what he had in mind.
                      – Barrie England
                      Dec 4 '11 at 19:34










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      What I see in style guides regarding the usage of the ellipsis for an omission is presented as three periods separated by spaces (. . .) for the ommission. The ellipsis without the spaces (...) for the pause.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 3




                        Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                        – ab2
                        Jan 13 '16 at 20:12















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      What I see in style guides regarding the usage of the ellipsis for an omission is presented as three periods separated by spaces (. . .) for the ommission. The ellipsis without the spaces (...) for the pause.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 3




                        Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                        – ab2
                        Jan 13 '16 at 20:12













                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote









                      What I see in style guides regarding the usage of the ellipsis for an omission is presented as three periods separated by spaces (. . .) for the ommission. The ellipsis without the spaces (...) for the pause.






                      share|improve this answer












                      What I see in style guides regarding the usage of the ellipsis for an omission is presented as three periods separated by spaces (. . .) for the ommission. The ellipsis without the spaces (...) for the pause.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Jan 13 '16 at 19:58









                      Teresa Garcia

                      1




                      1








                      • 3




                        Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                        – ab2
                        Jan 13 '16 at 20:12














                      • 3




                        Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                        – ab2
                        Jan 13 '16 at 20:12








                      3




                      3




                      Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                      – ab2
                      Jan 13 '16 at 20:12




                      Your answer would be better if it included a citation, or a link to one of the style guides you have consulted.
                      – ab2
                      Jan 13 '16 at 20:12










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      Any author is perfectly within her rights to tell the punctuation police to **** off.



                      These are matters of convention, not grammar, especially in fiction, and authors of fiction have license to approach conventions as they see fit.






                      share|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        Any author is perfectly within her rights to tell the punctuation police to **** off.



                        These are matters of convention, not grammar, especially in fiction, and authors of fiction have license to approach conventions as they see fit.






                        share|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote









                          Any author is perfectly within her rights to tell the punctuation police to **** off.



                          These are matters of convention, not grammar, especially in fiction, and authors of fiction have license to approach conventions as they see fit.






                          share|improve this answer












                          Any author is perfectly within her rights to tell the punctuation police to **** off.



                          These are matters of convention, not grammar, especially in fiction, and authors of fiction have license to approach conventions as they see fit.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Nov 19 at 20:04









                          TRomano

                          14.8k21943




                          14.8k21943






























                               

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