Forensic Linguistics; 'Stupid people' or 'Stupid woman' - Do we know what Jeremy Corbyn said?
In the UK, some of the debates in the Houses of Parliament are televised. On 18th December 2018, Jeremy Corbyn was filmed muttering something—which was interpreted by a Twitter user as "stupid woman"—to himself in response to a speech to Theresa May, the beleaguered British Prime Minister.
Later, in response to this Twitter accusation, Corbyn said that he had said stupid people, not stupid woman. A lot of media outlets said that several lip-readers that had viewed he footage thought that he had said stupid woman.
However, the other lipreaders that advised the Speaker of the House, who had to rule on whether Jeremy Corbyn had transgressed, said that it was not possible to tell which thing he had said.
If he did or did not say stupid people, how do we know? What is the LINGUISTIC evidence?
If we cannot tell, why is it that it is LINGUISTICALLY ambiguous and that we cannot tell?
Here is a video of parts of that original exchange:
Video of May and Corbyn
pronunciation phonology phonetics
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
|
show 19 more comments
In the UK, some of the debates in the Houses of Parliament are televised. On 18th December 2018, Jeremy Corbyn was filmed muttering something—which was interpreted by a Twitter user as "stupid woman"—to himself in response to a speech to Theresa May, the beleaguered British Prime Minister.
Later, in response to this Twitter accusation, Corbyn said that he had said stupid people, not stupid woman. A lot of media outlets said that several lip-readers that had viewed he footage thought that he had said stupid woman.
However, the other lipreaders that advised the Speaker of the House, who had to rule on whether Jeremy Corbyn had transgressed, said that it was not possible to tell which thing he had said.
If he did or did not say stupid people, how do we know? What is the LINGUISTIC evidence?
If we cannot tell, why is it that it is LINGUISTICALLY ambiguous and that we cannot tell?
Here is a video of parts of that original exchange:
Video of May and Corbyn
pronunciation phonology phonetics
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
2
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
3
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
2
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
2
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
3
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago
|
show 19 more comments
In the UK, some of the debates in the Houses of Parliament are televised. On 18th December 2018, Jeremy Corbyn was filmed muttering something—which was interpreted by a Twitter user as "stupid woman"—to himself in response to a speech to Theresa May, the beleaguered British Prime Minister.
Later, in response to this Twitter accusation, Corbyn said that he had said stupid people, not stupid woman. A lot of media outlets said that several lip-readers that had viewed he footage thought that he had said stupid woman.
However, the other lipreaders that advised the Speaker of the House, who had to rule on whether Jeremy Corbyn had transgressed, said that it was not possible to tell which thing he had said.
If he did or did not say stupid people, how do we know? What is the LINGUISTIC evidence?
If we cannot tell, why is it that it is LINGUISTICALLY ambiguous and that we cannot tell?
Here is a video of parts of that original exchange:
Video of May and Corbyn
pronunciation phonology phonetics
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
In the UK, some of the debates in the Houses of Parliament are televised. On 18th December 2018, Jeremy Corbyn was filmed muttering something—which was interpreted by a Twitter user as "stupid woman"—to himself in response to a speech to Theresa May, the beleaguered British Prime Minister.
Later, in response to this Twitter accusation, Corbyn said that he had said stupid people, not stupid woman. A lot of media outlets said that several lip-readers that had viewed he footage thought that he had said stupid woman.
However, the other lipreaders that advised the Speaker of the House, who had to rule on whether Jeremy Corbyn had transgressed, said that it was not possible to tell which thing he had said.
If he did or did not say stupid people, how do we know? What is the LINGUISTIC evidence?
If we cannot tell, why is it that it is LINGUISTICALLY ambiguous and that we cannot tell?
Here is a video of parts of that original exchange:
Video of May and Corbyn
pronunciation phonology phonetics
pronunciation phonology phonetics
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
edited 4 hours ago
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
asked 16 hours ago
Araucaria
35.2k968146
35.2k968146
2
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
3
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
2
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
2
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
3
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago
|
show 19 more comments
2
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
3
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
2
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
2
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
3
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago
2
2
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
3
3
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
2
2
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
2
2
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
3
3
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago
|
show 19 more comments
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2
If all the experts cannot agree, it is a tall task to think this community can provide an answer. ps: not my dn vote.
– lbf
16 hours ago
3
Mutters are not usually carefully articulated, at the lips or anywhere else. It has to be virtually impossible to distinguish the pair of labials p..p from the pair w..m, and how much rounding does ʊ get in rapid suppressed speech?
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
2
@HotLicks It is completely and uttely a question about English in every way!!!
– Araucaria
15 hours ago
2
@Araucaria I'll leave a formal answer to someone who can speak with authority on articulatory phonetics: somebody like, oh, you for example! And sure, my upvote--and my concurrence in your defence of the question's Anglicity.
– StoneyB
15 hours ago
3
I downvoted because, while the question is interesting, it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of being "[a] practical, answerable question based on [an] actual problem that you face." Experts are having trouble answering the question and attest how this is unanswerable, so it doesn't seem like your question is answerable with any degree of authority. (Your recent edit may change that, though - just based on what I know - that would incur a long answer.)
– TaliesinMerlin
15 hours ago