Are suggested ellipses grammatical? [on hold]
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Which of the following ellipses are/are not grammatical?
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
Or, other better way to have ellipsis in the sentence?
grammaticality ellipsis
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
put on hold as off-topic by Kris, Pam, David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Which of the following ellipses are/are not grammatical?
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
Or, other better way to have ellipsis in the sentence?
grammaticality ellipsis
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
put on hold as off-topic by Kris, Pam, David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
1
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Which of the following ellipses are/are not grammatical?
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
Or, other better way to have ellipsis in the sentence?
grammaticality ellipsis
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Which of the following ellipses are/are not grammatical?
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
Or, other better way to have ellipsis in the sentence?
grammaticality ellipsis
grammaticality ellipsis
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
edited Nov 24 at 2:38
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
asked Nov 24 at 0:31
Sasan
568933
568933
put on hold as off-topic by Kris, Pam, David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by Kris, Pam, David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – David, Rand al'Thor, bookmanu
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
1
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31
|
show 2 more comments
1
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
1
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31
1
1
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
1
1
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
To repeat the full version of the sentence:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Both of your shorter alternatives are grammatical, but only the first version has the same unambiguous interpretation as the longer version.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
By looking at the sentence, we can match its components.
A cannot be [taken as X]
in the same way
B can betaken as X.
It's easy enough to assume that taken as X is what has been elided from its parallel construction.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
The problem with this version is that there aren't enough elements in common between the first part of the sentence and the second part of the sentence to point to a single interpretation.
Interpretation 1
A cannot [be taken as X]
in the same way as
B (can)be taken as X.
Not only do we have to assume that what's been elided is the parallel phrase be taken as X, but we also have to assume a missing can.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B can be taken as X.
This is the interpretation you want; however, it's not the only interpretation.
Interpretation 2
A [cannot be taken as X]
in the same way as
Bcannot be taken as X.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase cannot be taken as X is what's been elided. This has a different meaning from the first interpretation.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as B cannot be taken as X.
Interpretation 3
[A cannot be taken as] X
in the same way asA (can) be taken asB.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase A can be taken as is what's been elided, but we're also assuming that the initial negative becomes a positive. This has a different meaning from the first two interpretations.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as A can be taken as B.
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
add a comment |
up vote
-2
down vote
Both are grammatical and reflect valid, common and natural forms of ellipsis - "the omission of one or more words that are obviously understood but that must be supplied to make a construction grammatically complete" [Merriam-Webster].
However, be aware that ellipsis is a common cause of ambiguity or confusion, since what you might think is "obviously understood" may not be what your intended audience thinks.
In conversation there are other non-verbal indicators such tone and gesture that help the audience interpret the meaning, and it's also relatively easy (and a relatively frequent consequence of ellipsis!) to address any confusion by asking a clarifying question – e.g. "Do you mean 'can taken as X'?"
However, there's generally less need to take linguistic shortcuts in written English, so you might consider avoiding the ellipsis unless it's more important to sound chatty or colloquial than it is to avoid confusion.
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
To repeat the full version of the sentence:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Both of your shorter alternatives are grammatical, but only the first version has the same unambiguous interpretation as the longer version.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
By looking at the sentence, we can match its components.
A cannot be [taken as X]
in the same way
B can betaken as X.
It's easy enough to assume that taken as X is what has been elided from its parallel construction.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
The problem with this version is that there aren't enough elements in common between the first part of the sentence and the second part of the sentence to point to a single interpretation.
Interpretation 1
A cannot [be taken as X]
in the same way as
B (can)be taken as X.
Not only do we have to assume that what's been elided is the parallel phrase be taken as X, but we also have to assume a missing can.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B can be taken as X.
This is the interpretation you want; however, it's not the only interpretation.
Interpretation 2
A [cannot be taken as X]
in the same way as
Bcannot be taken as X.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase cannot be taken as X is what's been elided. This has a different meaning from the first interpretation.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as B cannot be taken as X.
Interpretation 3
[A cannot be taken as] X
in the same way asA (can) be taken asB.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase A can be taken as is what's been elided, but we're also assuming that the initial negative becomes a positive. This has a different meaning from the first two interpretations.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as A can be taken as B.
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
To repeat the full version of the sentence:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Both of your shorter alternatives are grammatical, but only the first version has the same unambiguous interpretation as the longer version.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
By looking at the sentence, we can match its components.
A cannot be [taken as X]
in the same way
B can betaken as X.
It's easy enough to assume that taken as X is what has been elided from its parallel construction.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
The problem with this version is that there aren't enough elements in common between the first part of the sentence and the second part of the sentence to point to a single interpretation.
Interpretation 1
A cannot [be taken as X]
in the same way as
B (can)be taken as X.
Not only do we have to assume that what's been elided is the parallel phrase be taken as X, but we also have to assume a missing can.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B can be taken as X.
This is the interpretation you want; however, it's not the only interpretation.
Interpretation 2
A [cannot be taken as X]
in the same way as
Bcannot be taken as X.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase cannot be taken as X is what's been elided. This has a different meaning from the first interpretation.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as B cannot be taken as X.
Interpretation 3
[A cannot be taken as] X
in the same way asA (can) be taken asB.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase A can be taken as is what's been elided, but we're also assuming that the initial negative becomes a positive. This has a different meaning from the first two interpretations.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as A can be taken as B.
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
To repeat the full version of the sentence:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Both of your shorter alternatives are grammatical, but only the first version has the same unambiguous interpretation as the longer version.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
By looking at the sentence, we can match its components.
A cannot be [taken as X]
in the same way
B can betaken as X.
It's easy enough to assume that taken as X is what has been elided from its parallel construction.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
The problem with this version is that there aren't enough elements in common between the first part of the sentence and the second part of the sentence to point to a single interpretation.
Interpretation 1
A cannot [be taken as X]
in the same way as
B (can)be taken as X.
Not only do we have to assume that what's been elided is the parallel phrase be taken as X, but we also have to assume a missing can.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B can be taken as X.
This is the interpretation you want; however, it's not the only interpretation.
Interpretation 2
A [cannot be taken as X]
in the same way as
Bcannot be taken as X.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase cannot be taken as X is what's been elided. This has a different meaning from the first interpretation.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as B cannot be taken as X.
Interpretation 3
[A cannot be taken as] X
in the same way asA (can) be taken asB.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase A can be taken as is what's been elided, but we're also assuming that the initial negative becomes a positive. This has a different meaning from the first two interpretations.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as A can be taken as B.
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
To repeat the full version of the sentence:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be taken as X.
Both of your shorter alternatives are grammatical, but only the first version has the same unambiguous interpretation as the longer version.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way B can be.
By looking at the sentence, we can match its components.
A cannot be [taken as X]
in the same way
B can betaken as X.
It's easy enough to assume that taken as X is what has been elided from its parallel construction.
- A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B.
The problem with this version is that there aren't enough elements in common between the first part of the sentence and the second part of the sentence to point to a single interpretation.
Interpretation 1
A cannot [be taken as X]
in the same way as
B (can)be taken as X.
Not only do we have to assume that what's been elided is the parallel phrase be taken as X, but we also have to assume a missing can.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same way as B can be taken as X.
This is the interpretation you want; however, it's not the only interpretation.
Interpretation 2
A [cannot be taken as X]
in the same way as
Bcannot be taken as X.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase cannot be taken as X is what's been elided. This has a different meaning from the first interpretation.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as B cannot be taken as X.
Interpretation 3
[A cannot be taken as] X
in the same way asA (can) be taken asB.
Here, we're assuming the parallel phrase A can be taken as is what's been elided, but we're also assuming that the initial negative becomes a positive. This has a different meaning from the first two interpretations.
The full version:
A cannot be taken as X in the same was as A can be taken as B.
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
edited Nov 24 at 3:44
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
answered Nov 24 at 3:30
Jason Bassford
14.8k31941
14.8k31941
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
add a comment |
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
Just a note that even the original sentence already has an elision: [that] or [as] before "B can be taken as X".
– AmI
Nov 24 at 4:00
add a comment |
up vote
-2
down vote
Both are grammatical and reflect valid, common and natural forms of ellipsis - "the omission of one or more words that are obviously understood but that must be supplied to make a construction grammatically complete" [Merriam-Webster].
However, be aware that ellipsis is a common cause of ambiguity or confusion, since what you might think is "obviously understood" may not be what your intended audience thinks.
In conversation there are other non-verbal indicators such tone and gesture that help the audience interpret the meaning, and it's also relatively easy (and a relatively frequent consequence of ellipsis!) to address any confusion by asking a clarifying question – e.g. "Do you mean 'can taken as X'?"
However, there's generally less need to take linguistic shortcuts in written English, so you might consider avoiding the ellipsis unless it's more important to sound chatty or colloquial than it is to avoid confusion.
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
add a comment |
up vote
-2
down vote
Both are grammatical and reflect valid, common and natural forms of ellipsis - "the omission of one or more words that are obviously understood but that must be supplied to make a construction grammatically complete" [Merriam-Webster].
However, be aware that ellipsis is a common cause of ambiguity or confusion, since what you might think is "obviously understood" may not be what your intended audience thinks.
In conversation there are other non-verbal indicators such tone and gesture that help the audience interpret the meaning, and it's also relatively easy (and a relatively frequent consequence of ellipsis!) to address any confusion by asking a clarifying question – e.g. "Do you mean 'can taken as X'?"
However, there's generally less need to take linguistic shortcuts in written English, so you might consider avoiding the ellipsis unless it's more important to sound chatty or colloquial than it is to avoid confusion.
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
add a comment |
up vote
-2
down vote
up vote
-2
down vote
Both are grammatical and reflect valid, common and natural forms of ellipsis - "the omission of one or more words that are obviously understood but that must be supplied to make a construction grammatically complete" [Merriam-Webster].
However, be aware that ellipsis is a common cause of ambiguity or confusion, since what you might think is "obviously understood" may not be what your intended audience thinks.
In conversation there are other non-verbal indicators such tone and gesture that help the audience interpret the meaning, and it's also relatively easy (and a relatively frequent consequence of ellipsis!) to address any confusion by asking a clarifying question – e.g. "Do you mean 'can taken as X'?"
However, there's generally less need to take linguistic shortcuts in written English, so you might consider avoiding the ellipsis unless it's more important to sound chatty or colloquial than it is to avoid confusion.
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
Both are grammatical and reflect valid, common and natural forms of ellipsis - "the omission of one or more words that are obviously understood but that must be supplied to make a construction grammatically complete" [Merriam-Webster].
However, be aware that ellipsis is a common cause of ambiguity or confusion, since what you might think is "obviously understood" may not be what your intended audience thinks.
In conversation there are other non-verbal indicators such tone and gesture that help the audience interpret the meaning, and it's also relatively easy (and a relatively frequent consequence of ellipsis!) to address any confusion by asking a clarifying question – e.g. "Do you mean 'can taken as X'?"
However, there's generally less need to take linguistic shortcuts in written English, so you might consider avoiding the ellipsis unless it's more important to sound chatty or colloquial than it is to avoid confusion.
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
answered Nov 24 at 3:18
Chappo
2,45431224
2,45431224
add a comment |
add a comment |
1
Hi Sasan, you may not be aware that our other site English Language Learners is a better place to ask questions about English that a fluent speaker would find trivial. To understand which site you should post on, read this discussion on Meta. If you have a question for ELL, be sure to read their guidance on what you can ask. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 2:01
1
There isn't anything wrong with the original version of your sentence—although I would use taken as X at both the start and the end. (It's not clear why taken was changed to viewed.) If you really want to shorten it, the fact that the original uses two different verbs is a problem.
– Jason Bassford
Nov 24 at 2:37
@Chappo I see your point. I believe that to answer my question one needs to be fluent and experienced in writing serious texts. It is not just a matter of elementary knowledge of English.
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:41
@JasonBassford Edited. And you are right that the original version is OK. But what if we want not to repeat "can be taken as X"?
– Sasan
Nov 24 at 2:43
Sasan, I wasn't trying to downplay the complexity of your question. While some questions on ELL are quite basic, the site caters for much more than just elementary English; many other questions involve complex issues of grammar or idiomatic usage that most native English speakers would struggle to answer (other than saying "I dunno, it just sounds right/wrong"). I can recommend it as an additional resource, even if you continue to use EL&U as well. FWIW, I use both sites myself. :-)
– Chappo
Nov 24 at 3:31