Is the phrase “Those one track minds” grammatically correct? [on hold]
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There is an interesting grammatical construction in the song Shout by Tears For Fears.
They really really ought to know
Those one track minds
That took you for a working boy
Kiss them goodbye
I'm interested in the phrase "Those one track minds" which for me sounds incorrect. It feels like there should be "That" instead of "Those". First, I though that they broke the rules because of the rhyme, but "That one tracks minds" would have fitted ok without braking the rhyme.
Is there an explanation of such usage? Is it grammatically correct?
grammar grammatical-structure songs
put on hold as off-topic by Janus Bahs Jacquet, Dan Bron, David, Mark Beadles, Kris Nov 24 at 9:00
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – Dan Bron, David
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
There is an interesting grammatical construction in the song Shout by Tears For Fears.
They really really ought to know
Those one track minds
That took you for a working boy
Kiss them goodbye
I'm interested in the phrase "Those one track minds" which for me sounds incorrect. It feels like there should be "That" instead of "Those". First, I though that they broke the rules because of the rhyme, but "That one tracks minds" would have fitted ok without braking the rhyme.
Is there an explanation of such usage? Is it grammatically correct?
grammar grammatical-structure songs
put on hold as off-topic by Janus Bahs Jacquet, Dan Bron, David, Mark Beadles, Kris Nov 24 at 9:00
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – Dan Bron, David
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
1
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36
|
show 9 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
There is an interesting grammatical construction in the song Shout by Tears For Fears.
They really really ought to know
Those one track minds
That took you for a working boy
Kiss them goodbye
I'm interested in the phrase "Those one track minds" which for me sounds incorrect. It feels like there should be "That" instead of "Those". First, I though that they broke the rules because of the rhyme, but "That one tracks minds" would have fitted ok without braking the rhyme.
Is there an explanation of such usage? Is it grammatically correct?
grammar grammatical-structure songs
There is an interesting grammatical construction in the song Shout by Tears For Fears.
They really really ought to know
Those one track minds
That took you for a working boy
Kiss them goodbye
I'm interested in the phrase "Those one track minds" which for me sounds incorrect. It feels like there should be "That" instead of "Those". First, I though that they broke the rules because of the rhyme, but "That one tracks minds" would have fitted ok without braking the rhyme.
Is there an explanation of such usage? Is it grammatically correct?
grammar grammatical-structure songs
grammar grammatical-structure songs
asked Nov 23 at 22:26
Oleksandr Shpota
1084
1084
put on hold as off-topic by Janus Bahs Jacquet, Dan Bron, David, Mark Beadles, Kris Nov 24 at 9:00
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – Dan Bron, David
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by Janus Bahs Jacquet, Dan Bron, David, Mark Beadles, Kris Nov 24 at 9:00
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified." – Dan Bron, David
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
1
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36
|
show 9 more comments
1
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
1
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
1
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
1
1
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
1
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36
|
show 9 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Note here that 'minds' is not a verb. It is not like saying he minds the shop while they're eating - it is a noun and the object of to know.
one track should really be hyphenated because it's an idiomatic compound adjective. one-track originates from description of trains (see this page) and means that someone/something is repetitive or obsessed with something (i.e. their thoughts always return along the same track to the same ideas).
Because one track is only an adjective, applying to minds, you can understand the pronoun those by removing this adjective. This way, you get those minds, which makes sense - I think the confusion here is just misapplication of the pronoun as applying to 'one' or 'one track'.
New contributor
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
-1
down vote
Song lyrics like poetry use enjambment In poetry, "enjambment (/ ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m b m ən t / or / ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m m ən t /; from the French enjambement) is incomplete syntax at the end of a line; the meaning runs over from one poetic line to the next, without terminal punctuation," Wikipedia. The meaning of the last three lines is "Kiss goodbye those one-track minds that took you for a working boy." But rock music like poetry gains power by slicing things up and moving them around, to both fit the music and provoke the listener. Grammar and syntax don't much obtrude, and likely for the best. Had Jagger and Richards ran their song by the English Stack Exchange, we would now have (I Can't Get Any) Satisfaction. Would you buy the album?
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Note here that 'minds' is not a verb. It is not like saying he minds the shop while they're eating - it is a noun and the object of to know.
one track should really be hyphenated because it's an idiomatic compound adjective. one-track originates from description of trains (see this page) and means that someone/something is repetitive or obsessed with something (i.e. their thoughts always return along the same track to the same ideas).
Because one track is only an adjective, applying to minds, you can understand the pronoun those by removing this adjective. This way, you get those minds, which makes sense - I think the confusion here is just misapplication of the pronoun as applying to 'one' or 'one track'.
New contributor
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Note here that 'minds' is not a verb. It is not like saying he minds the shop while they're eating - it is a noun and the object of to know.
one track should really be hyphenated because it's an idiomatic compound adjective. one-track originates from description of trains (see this page) and means that someone/something is repetitive or obsessed with something (i.e. their thoughts always return along the same track to the same ideas).
Because one track is only an adjective, applying to minds, you can understand the pronoun those by removing this adjective. This way, you get those minds, which makes sense - I think the confusion here is just misapplication of the pronoun as applying to 'one' or 'one track'.
New contributor
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Note here that 'minds' is not a verb. It is not like saying he minds the shop while they're eating - it is a noun and the object of to know.
one track should really be hyphenated because it's an idiomatic compound adjective. one-track originates from description of trains (see this page) and means that someone/something is repetitive or obsessed with something (i.e. their thoughts always return along the same track to the same ideas).
Because one track is only an adjective, applying to minds, you can understand the pronoun those by removing this adjective. This way, you get those minds, which makes sense - I think the confusion here is just misapplication of the pronoun as applying to 'one' or 'one track'.
New contributor
Note here that 'minds' is not a verb. It is not like saying he minds the shop while they're eating - it is a noun and the object of to know.
one track should really be hyphenated because it's an idiomatic compound adjective. one-track originates from description of trains (see this page) and means that someone/something is repetitive or obsessed with something (i.e. their thoughts always return along the same track to the same ideas).
Because one track is only an adjective, applying to minds, you can understand the pronoun those by removing this adjective. This way, you get those minds, which makes sense - I think the confusion here is just misapplication of the pronoun as applying to 'one' or 'one track'.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Nov 24 at 7:11
Joseph Paduch
976
976
New contributor
New contributor
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
But wait. See my comment at OP.
– Kris
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
@Kris your reason that the post is off-topic Proofreading questions are off-topic unless a specific source of concern in the text is clearly identified means that this is not off-topic; there is a specific source of concern clearly identified in the text ('that' vs. 'those'). Besides which, the question could easily be reworded to ask about any general phrase of that type, rather than that phrase as it is presented in a specific text.
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
See the OP's comment above. So that explains everything.
– Kris
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
Yes, he commented that after I answered that it was an idiomatic phrase. I don't understand why you want me to read your comment or his?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
1
1
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
You said 'see my comment at OP', and I did - it was not relevant to my answer. You said 'see the OP's comment above', and I did - it demonstrated that the person asking the question had accepted my answer. You said 'those is irrelevant in the OP's interpretation', which I don't agree with, but that still has nothing to do with me. Your comments so far don't quite make sense to me, I'm sorry. "Comments are used to ask for clarification or to point out problems in the post." Would you like to clarify anything? Is there anything wrong with my answer?
– Joseph Paduch
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
-1
down vote
Song lyrics like poetry use enjambment In poetry, "enjambment (/ ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m b m ən t / or / ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m m ən t /; from the French enjambement) is incomplete syntax at the end of a line; the meaning runs over from one poetic line to the next, without terminal punctuation," Wikipedia. The meaning of the last three lines is "Kiss goodbye those one-track minds that took you for a working boy." But rock music like poetry gains power by slicing things up and moving them around, to both fit the music and provoke the listener. Grammar and syntax don't much obtrude, and likely for the best. Had Jagger and Richards ran their song by the English Stack Exchange, we would now have (I Can't Get Any) Satisfaction. Would you buy the album?
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
Song lyrics like poetry use enjambment In poetry, "enjambment (/ ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m b m ən t / or / ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m m ən t /; from the French enjambement) is incomplete syntax at the end of a line; the meaning runs over from one poetic line to the next, without terminal punctuation," Wikipedia. The meaning of the last three lines is "Kiss goodbye those one-track minds that took you for a working boy." But rock music like poetry gains power by slicing things up and moving them around, to both fit the music and provoke the listener. Grammar and syntax don't much obtrude, and likely for the best. Had Jagger and Richards ran their song by the English Stack Exchange, we would now have (I Can't Get Any) Satisfaction. Would you buy the album?
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
Song lyrics like poetry use enjambment In poetry, "enjambment (/ ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m b m ən t / or / ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m m ən t /; from the French enjambement) is incomplete syntax at the end of a line; the meaning runs over from one poetic line to the next, without terminal punctuation," Wikipedia. The meaning of the last three lines is "Kiss goodbye those one-track minds that took you for a working boy." But rock music like poetry gains power by slicing things up and moving them around, to both fit the music and provoke the listener. Grammar and syntax don't much obtrude, and likely for the best. Had Jagger and Richards ran their song by the English Stack Exchange, we would now have (I Can't Get Any) Satisfaction. Would you buy the album?
Song lyrics like poetry use enjambment In poetry, "enjambment (/ ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m b m ən t / or / ɛ n ˈ dʒ æ m m ən t /; from the French enjambement) is incomplete syntax at the end of a line; the meaning runs over from one poetic line to the next, without terminal punctuation," Wikipedia. The meaning of the last three lines is "Kiss goodbye those one-track minds that took you for a working boy." But rock music like poetry gains power by slicing things up and moving them around, to both fit the music and provoke the listener. Grammar and syntax don't much obtrude, and likely for the best. Had Jagger and Richards ran their song by the English Stack Exchange, we would now have (I Can't Get Any) Satisfaction. Would you buy the album?
edited Nov 24 at 3:01
answered Nov 24 at 0:23
Zan700
2,279419
2,279419
add a comment |
add a comment |
1
Those is correct. It refers to those people with one-track minds”. Also, you are parsing it as connected to the first line. It is actually a new thought which connects to the third line.
– Jim
Nov 23 at 22:31
That minds is not correct; it must be that mind or those minds. The demonstrative determinatives agree with the nouns they qualify in number.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:34
@JanusBahsJacquet - How do you know they're not all of one mind?
– Hot Licks
Nov 23 at 22:35
1
Thank you. Now I get it. I didn't know that "one-track mind" is an idiom.
– Oleksandr Shpota
Nov 23 at 22:36
1
@HotLicks I don’t; wouldn’t make a difference if they were, though.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 22:36