How can the younger one reach Bar Mitzvah age first? [on hold]











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A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





Hint related to final answer:




https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











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put on hold as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.



















    up vote
    6
    down vote

    favorite












    A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



    How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





    Hint related to final answer:




    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Dr. Shmuel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.











    put on hold as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest yesterday


    Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

















      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite











      A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



      How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





      Hint related to final answer:




      https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dr. Shmuel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



      How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





      Hint related to final answer:




      https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries








      logical-deduction knowledge






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dr. Shmuel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




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      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 days ago





















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      asked 2 days ago









      Dr. Shmuel

      1336




      1336




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      New contributor





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      put on hold as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest yesterday


      Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.






      put on hold as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest yesterday


      Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
























          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          10
          down vote



          accepted










          the giveaway is that the boys are




          Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




          How?




          Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

          But taking an important extract out of it :

          Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
          However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







          share|improve this answer




























            up vote
            9
            down vote














            John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




            Alternatively (with the edit):




            Jim isn't Jewish.




            Also possible (with the edit):




            Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




            Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



            Now possible with new edit:




            Jim dies before he turns 13.







            share|improve this answer























            • +1 A for effort
              – Dr. Shmuel
              2 days ago










            • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
              – ivanivan
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
              – Excited Raichu
              2 days ago






            • 2




              Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
              – ivanivan
              2 days ago


















            up vote
            5
            down vote













            Might be wrong but:




            It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







            share|improve this answer




























              up vote
              5
              down vote













              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







              share|improve this answer

















              • 2




                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                – Monty Harder
                2 days ago


















              up vote
              3
              down vote













              Because:




              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.


















              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                – user1717828
                2 days ago


















              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes








              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              10
              down vote



              accepted










              the giveaway is that the boys are




              Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




              How?




              Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

              But taking an important extract out of it :

              Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
              However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                10
                down vote



                accepted










                the giveaway is that the boys are




                Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                How?




                Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                But taking an important extract out of it :

                Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  10
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  10
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  the giveaway is that the boys are




                  Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                  How?




                  Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                  But taking an important extract out of it :

                  Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                  However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







                  share|improve this answer












                  the giveaway is that the boys are




                  Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                  How?




                  Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                  But taking an important extract out of it :

                  Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                  However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.








                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  Kryesec

                  6449




                  6449






















                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote














                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer























                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        2 days ago










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        2 days ago






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago















                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote














                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer























                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        2 days ago










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        2 days ago






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago













                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote










                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer















                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.








                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 2 days ago

























                      answered 2 days ago









                      Excited Raichu

                      4,552754




                      4,552754












                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        2 days ago










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        2 days ago






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago


















                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        2 days ago










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        2 days ago






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        2 days ago
















                      +1 A for effort
                      – Dr. Shmuel
                      2 days ago




                      +1 A for effort
                      – Dr. Shmuel
                      2 days ago












                      And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                      – ivanivan
                      2 days ago




                      And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                      – ivanivan
                      2 days ago




                      1




                      1




                      @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                      – Excited Raichu
                      2 days ago




                      @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                      – Excited Raichu
                      2 days ago




                      2




                      2




                      Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                      – ivanivan
                      2 days ago




                      Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                      – ivanivan
                      2 days ago










                      up vote
                      5
                      down vote













                      Might be wrong but:




                      It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                      share|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        5
                        down vote













                        Might be wrong but:




                        It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                        share|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          5
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          5
                          down vote









                          Might be wrong but:




                          It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                          share|improve this answer












                          Might be wrong but:




                          It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 2 days ago









                          gabbo1092

                          4,684738




                          4,684738






















                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote













                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer

















                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                2 days ago















                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote













                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer

















                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                2 days ago













                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote









                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer












                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?








                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 2 days ago









                              jafe

                              14.6k37149




                              14.6k37149








                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                2 days ago














                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                2 days ago








                              2




                              2




                              The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                              – Monty Harder
                              2 days ago




                              The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                              – Monty Harder
                              2 days ago










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote













                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                2 days ago















                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote













                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                2 days ago













                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote









                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!








                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited 2 days ago









                              gabbo1092

                              4,684738




                              4,684738






                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              answered 2 days ago









                              CMB

                              311




                              311




                              New contributor




                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





                              New contributor





                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              CMB is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.












                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                2 days ago


















                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                2 days ago
















                              Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                              – user1717828
                              2 days ago




                              Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                              – user1717828
                              2 days ago



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