Why isn't it “had handed” in “the girl alleged that her mother handed her over”?
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In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
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up vote
1
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In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
edited Oct 28 at 21:04
Laurel
29.3k654104
29.3k654104
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
asked May 2 at 12:39
TheMdsami33
217
217
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
1
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
1
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
1
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
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The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
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show 2 more comments
protected by MetaEd♦ May 29 at 14:42
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
answered May 2 at 14:35
mahmud koya
6,8144724
6,8144724
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:48
1
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
protected by MetaEd♦ May 29 at 14:42
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– Knotell
May 30 at 6:23